Best performed cricketers across all conditions and vs any opponent

[Red]

Typical Miller too. Probably cbf bowling in the first innings (hungover/shagged out), knocks up a quick 30 with the bat, rolls the arm over in the 3rd innings and takes 2/6 from 6 overs...

 

[the big bambino]

He was laid back. Disgusting having that much talent...and women.

 

[Victor Ian]

How would one factor in all round mastery? Kallis kicked butt most places with the bat though failed 40+ in Bangladesh (31.50), England (35.33) and Sri Lanka (35.33). Surely his bowling would tip him over the edge with 12.60, 29.30 and 38.57 respectively in these locations. He also failed 40+ against SriLanka but had a bowling performance of 32.92. Has anyone got a standard for all rounders? Does Kallis make the cut?

 

[Red]

How would one factor in all round mastery? Kallis kicked butt most places with the bat though failed 40+ in Bangladesh (31.50), England (35.33) and Sri Lanka (35.33). Surely his bowling would tip him over the edge with 12.60, 29.30 and 38.57 respectively in these locations. He also failed 40+ against SriLanka but had a bowling performance of 32.92. Has anyone got a standard for all rounders? Does Kallis make the cut?

I'd thought about that without having an answer. It's certainly simpler for batsmen or bowlers.

 

[smash84]

I respectfully disagree. A bowler with an average of 30 is just average similar to me for a batsman with an average of 35. A batsman with an average of about 40 is a great (or even ATG) batsman. Morris, Richardson, Gooch, Greenidge all averaged below 45. Bowlers with averages at or below 26 who are great (but not ATG) Willis, Bishop, Gillespie.

Honestly to average 30 with the ball is more like averaging 35 with the bat.

For the record and for mine, ATG with the bat around 50 and for a bowler around 23.

Dude, shane warne averages about 26. There is no way 26 is equivalent to 40. That is too low for the bowlers.

 

[kyear2]

Pace and spin are different Smali, you know that.

 

[smash84]

Andy Roberts averages somewhere around 26. You will have a hard time convincing me that batsmen like Shoaib Mohammad (avg 44) are comparable to Andy Roberts

 

[Victor Ian]

With respect to all rounders I'm kind of thinking they qualify if they have either >40 batting or <28 bowling that qualifies or their batting is 5+ more than their bowling. (I thought of +10 but then that is a great performance more than a really good one) It means you have to look to both bowling and batting summaries and is a bit more work, though there are less all rounders so maybe not such a big deal.
With this criteria I just checked a few;
Kallis fails on account of games against Sri Lanka.
Shaun Pollock fails on account of games against Australia.
Imran Khan passes (his bowling 'blips' are allowed because his batting exceeds his bowling by more than 5 in these instances)

 

[watson]

I'm not sure why we're so concerned about averages. The 'best performed cricketers' will be the best performed cricketers no matter what their averages are. For example, if the best batting average in Antarctica is 18.2 by a penguin then we have no choice but to accept it because that's all there is.

Personally, I don't think that we should be too picky about specific countries, and so like the Statsguru idea of giving stats for the 5 major regions;

Africa
Americas
Asia
Europe
Oceania.

Unfortunately, I can't find the function on Statguru that enables me to punch in: Batting Average > 40 for all Regions- and then get a convenient list of players.

So it means that we have no choice but to go through the ATG batsman and bowlers one by one. I'll get the ball rolling with Dravid;

Rahul Dravid Batting Averages by Region
Africa = 40.70
Americas = 65.69
Asia = 51.18
Europe = 68.80
Oceania = 48.30

Extra points for Dravid because his Away Average (53.03) is better than his Home Average (51.35). Can anyone find a better batsman who has been more successful across 5 Continents?

 

[Coronis]

Steve Waugh

Africa - 62.83
Americas - 68.50
Asia - 41.55
Europe - 74.22
Oceania - 46.21

Home - 47.58
Away - 55.85

 

[watson]

Steve Waugh

Africa - 62.83
Americas - 68.50
Asia - 41.55
Europe - 74.22
Oceania - 46.21

Home - 47.58
Away - 55.85

Yep, those figures will do it. What may even the ledger is that Dravid faced a lot more new ball than Waugh who spent most of career at No.5

 

[watson]

Tendulkar doesn't have the peaks of Dravid or Waugh, but for 200 Tests he remained remarkably consistent across the board.

Sachin Tendulkar Batting Averages by Region
Africa = 45.19
Americas = 47.69
Asia = 56.24
Europe = 54.31
Oceania = 51.98

Home = 52.67
Away = 54.74

Any advancement on Dravid, Waugh, or Tendulkar?

 

[Fuller Pilch]

While not in the same league as those mentioned above, this shows how much NZ have missed someone of Mark Richardson's consistent quality at the top of the order:

Africa 43.75
Americas 51.75
in Asia 45.60
in Europe 61.50
in Oceania 41.00

home 47.76
away 42.75

A disappointing tour of Aus ruined those Oceania figures a bit too.

 

[Victor Ian]

Graeme Smith

Africa = 41.52
Americas = 73.00
Asia = 49.37
Europe = 67.75
Oceania = 45.51

Bonus points for away > home
home = 41.52
away = 53.93
neutral = 70.83

 

[rtramdas]

Tendulkar doesn't have the peaks of Dravid or Waugh, but for 200 Tests he remained remarkably consistent across the board.

Sachin Tendulkar Batting Averages by Region
Africa = 45.19
Americas = 47.69
Asia = 56.24
Europe = 54.31
Oceania = 51.98

Home = 52.67
Away = 54.74

Any advancement on Dravid, Waugh, or Tendulkar?

i think Sachin would be only one of a hand ful to avg: >=45 in all continents. that is a great achievement and a true measure of his consistancy and greatness.

 

[karan316]

If we can discount Bradman because he did not play at any non existent (in his time) test countries, then can we discount Tendulkar for having not played on a sticky wicket , "the only difficulty for the batsmen". Further, Tendulkar has not played in the UAE so out of the places he could have played he has conveniently skipped one.

Just curious, does anyone have the stat for how poor Bradman was on a sticky wicket? Average 60, 50, 20?

Nice thread. I'm surprise at how few players have tremendous records all around, everywhere.

I generally do not agree when you just try to fit in some of the guys from the previous eras everywhere. I mean, how can players of Bradman's time even be considered for this type of thread?? It's about players doing well in a variety of conditions, adaptability becomes a huge factor here, how can you just claim that Bradman would fit in this category?? And I have no problem whether you include Tendulkar or not, I haven't mentioned anything about him anyways.

 

[the big bambino]

Yes but you have a Bradman obsession. A thread barely passes where you don't take a pot shot at his record to satisfy whatever miniscule grudge you appear to have against him. Even when there is no apparent segue to justify raising the topic. Bradman only played in 2 countries. No matter really. The variable conditions brought about by the weather constituted an ability he had for adaptation. The general belief that players from his time can't be considered for this thread is based on ignorance. Hammond, for example played in 5 of the 6 test nations then playing. He played on matting and jute wickets in SA and the WI. Compared to homogenous modern pitches he played on wickets of greater variety than the modern player will ever see.

 

[Red]

I generally do not agree when you just try to fit in some of the guys from the previous eras everywhere. I mean, how can players of Bradman's time even be considered for this type of thread?? It's about players doing well in a variety of conditions, adaptability becomes a huge factor here, how can you just claim that Bradman would fit in this category?? And I have no problem whether you include Tendulkar or not, I haven't mentioned anything about him anyways.

We all get that Bradman only played in 2 countries. So that's what we have to judge him on.

 

[Red]

Perhaps a good place to start is the cricinfo shortlists for the All-Time XIs…

For batsmen

Australia
Morris
Taylor
Woodfull
Justin Langer
Hayden
Ponsford
Lawry
Simpson
Trumper

Bradman
Border
Boon
S.Waugh
G.Chappell
Ponting
McCabe
MacCartney
Harvey
M.Waugh


Obviously it's hard to gauge earlier era guys using this method, but I still think you can only perform with what is presented to you...

 

[Red]

England

Hobbs
Sutcliffe
Hutton
Boycott
Gooch
Atherton
Vaughan

Hammond
Woolley
Cowdrey
Dexter
Pietersen
Barrington
Jackson
May
Gower
Compton