Best Australian cricket coach?

[mr_mister]

First, something I didn't know:

Prior to 1986, Australia did not select coaches as long-term appointments. Managers were appointed to handle the logistics of overseas tours and the assistant manager often doubled as the coach for the duration of the trip. Sometimes the team captain filled the Australian coaching role, particularly for home matches.


So that means only 7 people have ever had the job. I won't even include Tim Neilsen and Mickey Arthur as they were unmemorable/useless and best known for homework gate


Bobby Simpson (10 year reign)

*alongside with Border rebuilt Australia from hopeless minnows to number 1 side
*won the '87 world cup, made the final in '96
*won/retained ashes 4/5 times
*Won a test series in WI for the first time in decades in '95, ending the WI dominance of world cricket


Geoff Marsh (3 year reign)

*won the '99 world cup
*retained ashes 2/2 times
*kept up the high quality results Simpson established

John Buchanan (8 year reign)

*won the '03 and '07 world cups and never lost a game at WC(from 23 matches)
*won/retained ashes 3/4 times
*was at the helm for the large majority of both their first and second 16 test win streaks in '99-01 and later '05-08
*took Australia from number 1 side to arguably greatest side of all time

Darren Lehmann (5 year reign)

*repaired team rift after Mickey Arthur's homeworkgate
*won the '15 world cup, restoring Australia's reputation in the format
*won/retained ashes 2/4 times
*was at the helm during sandpapergate, which did tremendous damage to team's reputation and integrity

Justin Langer (2 year reign and counting)

*retained ashes 1/1 time
*took Australia from their lowest point reputation wise back to their baseline, restored some reputation and integrity

 

[Burgey]

Simpson
Buchanan
Lehmann
Langer
Marsh

Imho

 

[honestbharani]

Marsh seems to be under rated as a coach. He is someone who should receive significant credit for persisting with someone like Ponting, for instance.

 

[Shady Slim]

Simpson
Buchanan
Lehmann
Langer
Marsh

Imho

*shane warne has left the chat*

 

[Line and Length]

Any discussion on the merit of coaches needs to address the question, "Do coaches make the players, or do players make the coach?"

 

[Red]

First, something I didn't know:

Prior to 1986, Australia did not select coaches as long-term appointments. Managers were appointed to handle the logistics of overseas tours and the assistant manager often doubled as the coach for the duration of the trip. Sometimes the team captain filled the Australian coaching role, particularly for home matches.

Ian Chappell is dead against coaches of elite cricket teams. During and prior to the Chappell era, the team was run by the captain, and there was a manager to look after logistical things on tour. In reality, the only additions to the cricketers on a touring party were the manager, scorer and a masseuse/physio.

The manager seemed to be a pretty vital appointment though, someone who knew how to manage a group of guys successfully over a long period of time, which is really all elite coaches in cricket do anyway.

 

[Red]

That all said, in the early/mid 80s, we really needed Bob Simpson to do what he did. Call him coach or manager, whatever. He was pivotal in re-establishing us post Chappell/Lillee/Marsh and in helping Border find his feet as a leader. We went from a complete shambles to the 89 Ashes, which was really the start of the ascendency that continued til the end of the 2000s

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Ian Chappell is dead against coaches of elite cricket teams. During and prior to the Chappell era, the team was run by the captain, and there was a manager to look after logistical things on tour. In reality, the only additions to the cricketers on a touring party were the manager, scorer and a masseuse/physio.

The manager seemed to be a pretty vital appointment though, someone who knew how to manage a group of guys successfully over a long period of time, which is really all elite coaches in cricket do anyway.

Why would you need a scorer

 

[Red]

Why would you need a scorer

To write in the scorebook

 

[Line and Length]

I would have to go along with Simpson as being the best, given that he (and Border) turned the team around.

I'm on the fence regarding the merits of Buchanan.

 

[Red]

I'm on the fence regarding the merits of Buchanan.

I think he added a bit psychologically and statistically to the guys who responded well to that.

But seriously, anyone could have "coached" Hayden Langer Ponting Waugh Waugh Martyn Gilchrist Warne Lee Gillespie McGrath MacGill to success.

Warne most of all famously hated Buchanan, allying himself with the Chappelli philosophy, basically that Buchanan could never teach/coach him anything to do with leg-spin.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/20583324/warne-v-buchanan

 

[Line and Length]

My memories of Buchanan are of him almost permanently attached to his laptop.

 

[morgieb]

Buck is a weird one, you have to admit that his poor relations with key Australian players is a bit of a black mark, but equally his record was the best of all the Aussie coaches.

Would probably go Simmo first though. Took Australia from easybeats to the best side in the world. Reckon he just as much as Border was responsible towards setting up Aussie dominance.

 

[vcs]

Simpson
Buchanan
Lehmann
Langer
Marsh

Imho

Think Lehmann should be last, sandpapergate is a big blot on his record.

 

[Flem274*]

buchanan is a divisive unit in general i think. his stint over here ruffled a lot of jocks the wrong way.

 

[stephen]

Buchanan was the perfect coach for that group of players. They didn't need the technical coaching as much as psychological coaching. They had the talent, they just needed the mental game. You don't win three consecutive world cups without strong mindedness and that's what he gave to the side.

I understand he ruffled feathers. He did so because players who are prima donnas like Warne often don't really understand why other players need the extra mental coaching because they're so full of themselves already. But most players aren't that arrogant and have doubts and insecurities that Buchanan's type of coaching worked well at eliminating.

Queensland always had the talent to win the shield but it took Buchanan to give them the mental edge to finally do it.

 

[Burgey]

Ian Chappell is dead against coaches of elite cricket teams. During and prior to the Chappell era, the team was run by the captain, and there was a manager to look after logistical things on tour. In reality, the only additions to the cricketers on a touring party were the manager, scorer and a masseuse/physio.

The manager seemed to be a pretty vital appointment though, someone who knew how to manage a group of guys successfully over a long period of time, which is really all elite coaches in cricket do anyway.

Yeah but when Chappell played, a tour lasted 3-4 months and tests were a fortnight to three weeks apart. Blokes had months to get acclimatized and work on things in net session after net session. Once tours started shortening and becoming more frequent, having an extended staff including coach(es) became paramount to preparation and getting the best out of players.

 

[Line and Length]

In his one season at Middlesex (1998) Buchanan failed to break that team's trophy drought - despite names such as Gatting, Langer, Tufnell, Fraser, Ramprakash and Strauss being on the list. However, Buchanan said it was a good learning experience and he certainly got good results later in his coaching career.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Buchanan was the perfect coach for that group of players. They didn't need the technical coaching as much as psychological coaching. They had the talent, they just needed the mental game. You don't win three consecutive world cups without strong mindedness and that's what he gave to the side.

I understand he ruffled feathers. He did so because players who are prima donnas like Warne often don't really understand why other players need the extra mental coaching because they're so full of themselves already. But most players aren't that arrogant and have doubts and insecurities that Buchanan's type of coaching worked well at eliminating.

Queensland always had the talent to win the shield but it took Buchanan to give them the mental edge to finally do it.

Warne needed, and still needs, plenty of mental coaching. Just not in regards to cricket.

 

[mr_mister]

In his one season at Middlesex (1998) Buchanan failed to break that team's trophy drought - despite names such as Gatting, Langer, Tufnell, Fraser, Ramprakash and Strauss being on the list. However, Buchanan said it was a good learning experience and he certainly got good results later in his coaching career.

interesting that Gatting and Strauss had career crossover.. i feel there's a whole generation of cricketers in between them