Barry Richards vs Mike Procter

[peterhrt]

Sobers rates Gavaskar as the greatest batsman he has seen. I dont think anyone rated Hutton that high.

Trueman said Hutton was the best batsman he saw. Cowdrey said he was the most complete technically. Compton wrote in 1990 that Hutton was the greatest opening batsman of his experience. Illingworth said he was a class above all others of his time.

All were English of course but only Cowdrey and Illingworth had warm personal relations with Hutton. Compton had previously criticised him for batting too defensively while Trueman blamed him for his own exclusion from the England team.

Hutton was one of Gavaskar's biggest fans, seeing similarities between their methods. Alec Bedser, experienced selector and shrewd judge of a player despite a reputation for living in the past, rated Merchant above Gavaskar, especially on wet English pitches. Hutton, who also saw both of them, disagreed. One of Gavaskar's best innings has been largely forgotten: 101 run out at Old Trafford in 1974 on a damp pitch that was seaming all over the place.

Hutton and Gavaskar might be ranked about equally overall, with preference depending partly on where in the world you reside.

Cricinfo's all-time World XI in 2010 had Hobbs and Hutton opening, with Gavaskar and Barry Richards opening for the 2nd XI.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Trueman said Hutton was the best batsman he saw. Cowdrey said he was the most complete technically. Compton wrote in 1990 that Hutton was the greatest opening batsman of his experience. Illingworth said he was a class above all others of his time.

All were English of course but only Cowdrey and Illingworth had warm personal relations with Hutton. Compton had previously criticised him for batting too defensively while Trueman blamed him for his own exclusion from the England team.

Hutton was one of Gavaskar's biggest fans, seeing similarities between their methods. Alec Bedser, experienced selector and shrewd judge of a player despite a reputation for living in the past, rated Merchant above Gavaskar, especially on wet English pitches. Hutton, who also saw both of them, disagreed. One of Gavaskar's best innings has been largely forgotten: 101 run out at Old Trafford in 1974 on a damp pitch that was seaming all over the place.

Hutton and Gavaskar might be ranked about equally overall, with preference depending partly on where in the world you reside.

Cricinfo's all-time World XI in 2010 had Hobbs and Hutton opening, with Gavaskar and Barry Richards opening for the 2nd XI.

Funnily enough, Gavaskar missed out to be on that team by 1 point; though not in place of Hutton but Hobbs.

 

[Coronis]

Trueman said Hutton was the best batsman he saw. Cowdrey said he was the most complete technically. Compton wrote in 1990 that Hutton was the greatest opening batsman of his experience. Illingworth said he was a class above all others of his time.

All were English of course but only Cowdrey and Illingworth had warm personal relations with Hutton. Compton had previously criticised him for batting too defensively while Trueman blamed him for his own exclusion from the England team.

Hutton was one of Gavaskar's biggest fans, seeing similarities between their methods. Alec Bedser, experienced selector and shrewd judge of a player despite a reputation for living in the past, rated Merchant above Gavaskar, especially on wet English pitches. Hutton, who also saw both of them, disagreed. One of Gavaskar's best innings has been largely forgotten: 101 run out at Old Trafford in 1974 on a damp pitch that was seaming all over the place.

Hutton and Gavaskar might be ranked about equally overall, with preference depending partly on where in the world you reside.

Cricinfo's all-time World XI in 2010 had Hobbs and Hutton opening, with Gavaskar and Barry Richards opening for the 2nd XI.

I mean, all four of them also played alongside or against Hutton extensively - I think we all know players have a bias in that area.

I’d also rate Merchant above Gavaskar on wet English pitches - considering by Gavaskar’s first English tour pitch covering laws had changed in England, the wickets in those situations would have been much more dire for Merchant.

 

[kyear2]

There is inconsistency as even as recently as this past month I’ve seen you post “I rate Richards due to all I’ve read about him etc and I haven’t looked into Procter’s career” You also only rate Barry amongst SA players from that era despite them all playing in county and some having just as or more impressive records as him compared to their competition.

Procter also brings an added dimension of scoring faster than Imran but that probably doesn’t count for you because it isn’t convenient. His fielding which was far superior to Imran’s probably also conveniently doesn’t come into it.

But because Barry can score a bit faster it goes from Imran being easily better than Gavaskar to Richards being ahead of Procter.

Ok, I'm lost. I have a bias against Procter now?

Have a fast scoring technically correct post war opening batsman, who's also a first rate slip catcher is such a rarity to the point that probably only one other exist, and not at his level.

Yes Procter was special, brilliant even. As a bowler he could have been among the best ever, but as I stated above, Barry was tested in more tricky conditions than Procter.

Yes Procter was a top tier pacer, test standard lower order batsman, and excellent slip fielder, I'm not saying he was anything less than great.

And I've not compared him to Imran, and yes he was likely a better batsman and way better fielder, but what's your point?

But an opener who can dictate the game like that from the top in all conditions just haven't been seen since Hobbs and Procter just wasn't tested in all such conditions, that's all.

As I said above, if they had played full careers I have little doubt both would have been ATGs and contenders if not shoo-in for an ATG XI.

 

[kyear2]

Funnily enough, Gavaskar missed out to be on that team by 1 point; though not in place of Hutton but Hobbs.

Yeah, I remember that as well, Hutton was the comfortably the safe one.

Loved his record, less a fan of the scoring rate. But he was a fighter and an under-rated captain.

 

[Coronis]

Ok, I'm lost. I have a bias against Procter now?

Have a fast scoring technically correct post war opening batsman, who's also a first rate slip catcher is such a rarity to the point that probably only one other exist, and not at his level.

Yes Procter was special, brilliant even. As a bowler he could have been among the best ever, but as I stated above, Barry was tested in more tricky conditions than Procter.

Yes Procter was a top tier pacer, test standard lower order batsman, and excellent slip fielder, I'm not saying he was anything less than great.

And I've not compared him to Imran, and yes he was likely a better batsman and way better fielder, but what's your point?

But an opener who can dictate the game like that from the top in all conditions just haven't been seen since Hobbs and Procter just wasn't tested in all such conditions, that's all.

As I said above, if they had played full careers I have little doubt both would have been ATGs and contenders if not shoo-in for an ATG XI.

Nah you just have a bias towards Richards. Considering you think Imran is easily ahead of Gavaskar and you concede Procter was possibly superior to Imran and you still think Richards is better?

Where is it you rank Imran as a cricketer again? Like 4th or 5th all time or something? So you think Procter was equal to/better but you still rate Richards above that?

 

[kyear2]

Nah you just have a bias towards Richards. Considering you think Imran is easily ahead of Gavaskar and you concede Procter was possibly superior to Imran and you still think Richards is better?

Where is it you rank Imran as a cricketer again? Like 4th or 5th all time or something? So you think Procter was equal to/better but you still rate Richards above that?

I have Hobbs 4th, Imran 10th and Gavaskar 19th

So if I have Barry the modern version of Hobbs and Procter a better batting and fielding, but less tested Imran.....

 

[capt_Luffy]

I have Hobbs 4th, Imran 10th and Gavaskar 19th

So if I have Barry the modern version of Hobbs and Procter a better batting and fielding, but less tested Imran.....

Barry being a version of Hobbs is stretching it too far..... Their FC records are not comparable, no one's is. If Procter is a better batting and fielding Imran, then Richards is a more attacking Gavaskar. Both Richards and Procter have arguments to be better; but that's a bit of a stretch as they are significantly less tested.

 

[Coronis]

I have Hobbs 4th, Imran 10th and Gavaskar 19th

So if I have Barry the modern version of Hobbs and Procter a better batting and fielding, but less tested Imran.....

Imran 10th? seriously?

 

[kyear2]

Barry being a version of Hobbs is stretching it too far..... Their FC records are not comparable, no one's is. If Procter is a better batting and fielding Imran, then Richards is a more attacking Gavaskar. Both Richards and Procter have arguments to be better; but that's a bit of a stretch as they are significantly less tested.

I'm just using as closest comps.

Only pre war Hobbs was an attacking batsman with a good technique to succeed everywhere. Who else is there?

 

[capt_Luffy]

I'm just using as closest comps.

Only pre war Hobbs was an attacking batsman with a good technique to succeed everywhere. Who else is there?

Victor Trumper.....

 

[kyear2]

Imran 10th? seriously?

Yup.

Bradman, Sobers, Marshall, Hobbs, Hadlee, McGrath, Tendulkar.

It's less clear after that but some order of....

Richards, Warne, Imran, Steyn, Muralitharan

Then further confusion

Lara, Smith, Kallis, Hammond, Hutton, Gilchrist, Ambrose, Gavaskar

 

[kyear2]

Victor Trumper.....

Wasn't most if his damage in the middle order?

 

[capt_Luffy]

Wasn't most if his damage in the middle order?

Not actually. He averages higher in Test matches in middle order, but most of his 1902 wet summer exploits, the thing that basically set his legacy and to believe almost any account; was the greatest peak of any batsman in damaged pitches; was while opening.