All time XIs discussion

[CricAddict]

A thread to discuss all the all time XIs that Nufan has created across countries. We can have a promotion/delegation game here in future where the current/future player enters into a team and one of the incumbents is demoted on a consensus.

 

[CricAddict]

Australia XI: 1. VT Trumper 2. ML Hayden 3. DG Bradman * 4. GS Chappell 5. AR Border 6. KR Miller 7. AC Gilchrist + 8. RR Lindwall 9. SK Warne 10. DK Lillee 11. GD McGrath	Australia A XI 1. AR Morris 2. RB Simpson 3. RT Ponting 4. RN Harvey 5. SPD Smith 6. SR Waugh * 7. IA Healy + 8. AK Davidson 9. JN Gillespie 10. WJ Reilly 11. FR Spofforth	Australia B XI 1. WM Lawry 2. WH Ponsford 3. C Hill 4. SJ McCabe 5. MJ Clarke * 6. KD Walters 7. RW Marsh + 8. MG Johnson 9. CBT Turner 10. CV Grimmett 11. JR Thomson	Australia C XI 1. WM Woodfull 2. JL Langer 3. CG Macartney 4. AL Hassett 5. MEK Hussey 6. MA Noble 7. RB Benaud * 8. WAS Oldfield + 9. RJ Harris 10. GD McKenzie 11. WA Johnston	Australia D XI 1. DA Warner 2. SG Barnes 3. IM Chappell * 4. DR Martyn 5. ME Waugh 6. WW Armstrong 7. JM Gregory 8. D Tallon + 9. H Trumble 10. CJ McDermott 11. TM Alderman	Australia E XI 1. MA Taylor * 2. W Bardsley 3. DC Boon 4. NCL O'Neill 5. DM Jones 6. J Ryder 7. G Giffen 8. JM Blackham + 9. MG Hughes 10. SCG MacGill 11. BA Reid
Australia F XI 1. MJ Slater 2. A Jackson 3. IR Redpath 4. RM Cowper 5. DS Lehmann * 6. SR Watson 7. BJ Haddin + 8. B Lee 9. JR Hazlewood 10. NM Lyon 11. JJ Ferris	Australia G XI 1. WA Brown 2. HL Collins * 3. GN Yallop 4. KJ Hughes 5. SM Katich 6. WL Murdoch 7. GJ Gilmour 8. MA Starc 9. ATW Grout + 10. EA McDonald 11. H Ironmonger	Australia H XI 1. KR Stackpole 2. CC McDonald 3. BC Booth * 4. PJP Burge 5. VS Ransford 6. C Kelleway 7. H Carter + 8. DW Fleming 9. WJ Whitty 10. AA Mailey 11. RM Hogg	Australia I XI 1. RA Duff 2. JHW Fingleton 3. KC Wessels 4. UT Khawaja 5. AG Kippax 6. CL McCool 7. PR Reiffel 8. JJ Kelly + 9. MHN Walker 10. GF Lawson * 11. GE Palmer	Australia J XI 1. J Darling * 2. CLJ Rogers 3. GS Blewett 4. R Edwards 5. AC Voges 6. A Symonds 7. RG Archer 8. GRA Langley + 9. SR Clark 10. AN Connolly 11. JV Saunders	Australia K XI 1. RB McCosker 2. GR Marsh 3. FA Iredale 4. PS McDonnell * 5. SG Law 6. KD Mackay 7. WB Phillips + 8. A Cotter 9. PM Siddle 10. AA Mallett 11. ERH Toshack
Australia L XI 1. PA Jaques 2. C Bannerman 3. SE Marsh 4. BJ Hodge 5. DW Hookes * 6. GRJ Matthews 7. HV Horden 8. JL Pattinson 9. BN Jarman + 10. G Dymock 11. LS Pascoe	Australia M XI 1. GM Wood 2. PJ Hughes 3. AP Sheahan 4. GM Ritchie 5. SE Gregory * 6. MG Bevan 7. TD Paine + 8. NJN Hawke 9. AG Hurst 10. CG Rackemann 11. JB Iverson	Australia N XI 1. MTG Elliott 2. BM Laird 3. JW Burke 4. MJ North 5. JM Taylor 6. SJE Loxton 7. LV Maddocks + 8. PJ Cummins 9. IWG Johnson * 10. BW Hilfenhaus 11. E Jones	Australia O XI 1. AMJ Hilditch 2. AC Bannerman 3. ML Love 4. P Toohey 5. GJ Cosier 6. TM Moody 7. PM Nevill + 8. B Yardley 9. MS Kasprowicz 10. CR Miller 11. WM Clark

 

[CricAddict]

England XI 1. JB Hobbs 2. L Hutton * 3. WR Hammond 4. KF Barrington 5. DCS Compton 6. IT Botham 7. APE Knott + 8. H Larwood 9. JC Laker 10. FS Trueman 11. SF Barnes	England A XI 1. H Sutcliffe 2. G Boycott 3. KS Ranjitsinhji 4. PBH May 5. JE Root 6. WG Grace * 7. LEG Ames + 8. H Verity 9. AV Bedser 10. JA Snow 11. FH Tyson	England B XI 1. GA Gooch 2. AN Cook 3. ER Dexter * 4. KP Pietersen 5. DI Gower 6. FE Woolley 7. MW Tate 8. TG Evans + 9. RGD Willis 10. DL Underwood 11. JM Anderson	England C XI 1. JH Edrich 2. ME Trescothick 3. MC Cowdrey * 4. EH Hendren 5. GP Thorpe 6. A Flintoff 7. RC Russell + 8. W Rhodes 9. D Gough 10. GA Lohmann 11. JB Statham	England D XI 1. AJ Stewart 2. DL Amiss 3. TW Graveney 4. FS Jackson 5. M Leyland 6. AW Greig * 7. FR Foster 8. RW Taylor + 9. JH Wardle 10. SCJ Broad 11. T Richardson	England E XI 1. AC MacLaren * 2. A Shrewsbury 3. IJL Trott 4. CP Mead 5. E Paynter 6. JM Bairstow + 7. TE Bailey 8. GP Swann 9. W Voce 10. ARC Fraser 11. WE Bowes
England F XI 1. C Washbrook 2. MP Vaughan 3. WJ Edrich 4. KS Duleepsinhji 5. RA Smith 6. DR Jardine * 7. JM Parks + 8. GOB Allen 9. WH Lockwood 10. R Peel 11. K Farnes	England G XI 1. AJ Strauss * 2. MA Atherton 3. GE Tyldesley 4. TW Hayward 5. J Hardstaff Jr 6. BL D'Oliveira 7. MJ Prior + 8. GH Hirst 9. J Briggs 10. K Higgs 11. DJ Brown	England H XI 1. PE Richardson 2. B Abel 3. JT Tyldesley 4. IR Bell 5. AJ Lamb * 6. AG Steel 7. W Barnes 8. MJ Hoggard 9. AR Caddick 10. C Blythe 11. H Strudwick +	England I XI 1. R Subba Row 2. BC Broad 3. N Hussain 4. G Gunn 5. PH Parfitt 6. BA Stokes 7. JT Murray + 8. R Illingworth * 9. CM Old 10. SJ Harmison 11. M Hendrick	England J XI 1. AE Stoddart 2. G Pullar 3. CB Fry * 4. MW Gatting 5. KWR Fletcher 6. PD Collingwood 7. AFA Lilley + 8. W Bates 9. GAR Lock 10. GR Dilley 11. PJ Loader	England K XI 1. C Milburn 2. CAG Russell 3. DS Sheppard 4. MH Denness * 5. DW Randall 6. G Ulyett 7. BR Knight 8. DG Cork 9. G Duckworth + 10. GG Arnold 11. AP Freeman
England L XI 1. CF Walters 2. RW Barber 3. MA Butcher 4. RH Spooner 5. GA Hick 6. JWHT Douglas * 7. RWV Robins 8. PR Downton + 9. RJ Sidebottom 10. JK Lever 11. JT Hearne	England M XI 1. JDB Robertson 2. CJ Barnett 3. RT Simpson 4. MJK Smith 5. RES Wyatt 6. FR Brown * 7. GO Jones + 8. FJ Titmus 9. SP Jones 10. NAT Foster 11. CT Tremlett	England N XI 1. G Fowler 2. A Sandham 3. CT Radley 4. RE Foster 5. RA Woolmer 6. WW Read * 7. RT Spooner + 8. DA Allen 9. PAJ DeFreitas 10. G Geary 11. DW Headley	England O XI 1. RT Robinson 2. BW Luckhurst 3. PJ Sharpe 4. W Gunn 5. AJ Watkins 6. GL Jessop 7. NWD Yardley * 8. G MacGregor + 9. ST Finn 10. R Appleyard 11. IAR Peebles

 

[harsh.ag]

Gilbert Jessop only getting in on the 15th England XI is a massive oversight.

 

[CricAddict]

Zimbabwe XI 1 G Flower 2 H Masakadza 3 M Goodwin 4 A Flower 5 D Houghton 6 G Whittall 7 T Taibu+ 8 P Strang 9 H Streak 10 E Brandes 11 K Jarvis

Zimbabwe A XI 1 A Campbell 2 K Arnott 3 S Carlisle 4 C Ervine 5 B Taylor+ 6 N Johnson 7 S Ervine 8 A Blignaut 9 R Price 10 D Brain 11 H Olonga

Zimbabwe B XI 1 T Gripper 2 D Ebrahim 3 S Raza 4 A Pycroft 5 S Williams 6 M Vermeulen 7 R Chakabva+ 8 T Friend 9 J Traicos* 10 M Jarvis 11 P Mbangwa

Zimbabwe C XI 1 G Rennie 2 T Mawoyo 3 V Sibanda 4 C Wishart 5 D Marillier 6 E Chigumbura 7 W James+ 8 G Cremer* 9 T Panyangara 10 B Strang 11 T Chatara

 

[CricAddict]

Sri Lanka XI 1 S Jayasuriya 2 T Dilshan 3 K Sangakkara 4 A de Silva 5 M Jayawardene* 6 D Chandimal+ 7 T Samaraweera 8 C Vaas 9 R Herath 10 L Malinga 11 M Muralitharan	Sri Lanka A XI 1 M Atapattu 2 S Wettimuny 3 A Gurusinha 4 R Dias 5 A Mathews 6 A Ranatunga* 7 P Jayawardene+ 8 S de Silva 9 A de Mel 10 A Mendis 11 R Ratnayake	Sri Lanka B XI 1 D Karunaratne 2 R Mahanama 3 K Mendis 4 H Tillakaratne 5 D Mendis 6 D de Silva 7 R Kaluwitharana+ 8 D Perera 9 R Ratnayeke 10 D Prasad 11 D Fernando	Sri Lanka C XI 1 Michael Vandort 2 Malinda Warnapura 3 Ranjan Madugalle* 4 Russell Arnold 5 Asela Gunaratne 6 Chamara Silva 7 Niroshan Dickwella+ 8 Shaminda Eranga 9 Nuwan Zoysa 10 Ajit de Silva 11 Vinothen John
Sri Lanka D XI 1 Tharanga Paranavithana 2 Brendon Kuruppu 3 Kaushal Silva 4 Upul Tharanga* 5 Chandika Hathurisinghe 6 Upul Chandana 7 Kumar Dharmasena 8 Nuwan Kulusekara 9 Guy de Alwis+ 10 Suranga Lakmal 11 Pramodya Wickramasinghe	Sri Lanka E XI 1 Amal Silva+ 2 Kusul Perera 3 Sanjeeva Ranatunga* 4 Roshen Silva 5 Lahiru Thirimanne 6 Chamara Kapugedera 7 Milinda Siriwardana 8 Champaka Ramanayake 9 Jayananda Warnaweera 10 Ravindra Pushpakamara 11 Don Anurasiri

 

[CricAddict]

Bangladesh XI 1 Tamim Iqbal 2 Imrul Kayes 3 Mominul Haque 4 Habibul Bashar* 5 Shakib al Hasan 6 Mushfiqur Rahim+ 7 Mahmudullah Riyad 8 Mehidy Hasan 9 Mohammad Rafique 10 Mashrafe Mortaza 11 Mustafizur Rahman

Bangladesh A XI 1 Javed Omar 2 Shahriar Nafees 3 Mohammad Ashraful 4 Junaid Siddique 5 Nasir Hossain 6 Naeem Islam 7 Khaled Mashud*+ 8 Sohag Gazi 9 Tapash Baisya 10 Shahadat Hossain 11 Taijul Islam

Bangladesh B XI 1 Al Sahariar 2 Liton Das+ 3 Rajin Saleh 4 Aminul Islam* 5 Aftab Ahmed 6 Akram Khan 7 Sabbir Rahman 8 Abdur Razzak 9 Rubel Hossain 10 Robiul Islam 11 Enamul Haque jnr

Bangladesh C XI 1 Soumya Sarkar 2 Nafees Iqbal 3 Hannan Sarkar 4 Shamsur Rahman 5 Jahurul Islam 6 Alok Kapali 7 Mohammad Salim+ 8 Enamul Haque* 9 Shafiul Islam 10 Manjurul Islam 11 Jubair Hossain

 

[Starfighter]

I should have gone through and done the initials of the Sri Lankan XIs. Would have been quite a treat.

 

[weldone]

Starting the Australian discussion by comparing Lillee and Davidson. Why is Lillee in the first team where Davidson was the better bowler, better batsman, better fielder, better human being, better team-man and provided added variety?

I'd like to hear some detailed reasoning from someone, hopefully backed by some stats.

 

[ankitj]

I will probably have Davidson in AUS AT XI but in place of Lindwall.

 

[jimmy101]

Bangladesh XI 1 Tamin Iqbal 2 Imrul Kayes 3 Mominul Haque 4 Habibul Bashar* 5 Shakib al Hasan 6 Mushfiqur Rahim+ 7 Mahmudullah Riyad 8 Mehidy Hasan 9 Mohammad Rafique 10 Mashrafe Mortaza 11 Mustafizur Rahman

Bangladesh A XI 1 Javed Omar 2 Shahriar Nafees 3 Mohammad Ashraful 4 Junaid Siddique 5 Nasir Hossain 6 Naeem Islam 7 Khaled Mashud*+ 8 Sohag Gazi 9 Tapash Baisya 10 Shahadat Hossain 11 Taijul Islam

Bangladesh B XI 1 Al Sahariar 2 Liton Das+ 3 Rajin Saleh 4 Aminul Islam* 5 Aftab Ahmed 6 Akram Khan 7 Sabbir Rahman 8 Abdur Razzak 9 Rubel Hossain 10 Robiul Islam 11 Enamul Haque jnr

Bangladesh C XI 1 Soumya Sarkar 2 Nafees Iqbal 3 Hannan Sarkar 4 Shamsur Rahman 5 Jahurul Islam 6 Alok Kapali 7 Mohammad Salim+ 8 Enamul Haque* 9 Shafiul Islam 10 Manjurul Islam 11 Jubair Hossain

Great stuff mate, but can we get Tamim Iqbal's name fixed?

 

[jimmy101]

Starting the Australian discussion by comparing Lillee and Davidson. Why is Lillee in the first team where Davidson was the better bowler, better batsman, better fielder, better human being, better team-man and provided added variety?

I'd like to hear some detailed reasoning from someone, hopefully backed by some stats.

I can't provide any detailed reasoning, all I can say was Lillee was a lot scarier & bowled a lot more bouncers than Davo. Makes the most sense for an Aussie team to have DK. ;-)

 

[weldone]

I will probably have Davidson in AUS AT XI but in place of Lindwall.

I can't provide any detailed reasoning, all I can say was Lillee was a lot scarier & bowled a lot more bouncers than Davo. Makes the most sense for an Aussie team to have DK. ;-)

looking for some more solid reason than these

I mean come on - Mitchell Johnson was scarier than Lillee and so was Thomson. That doesn't mean they should be in AT XI.

 

[S.Kennedy]

Lillee epitomises that period which replaced the stiff upper lip/black and white period of earlier, when cricketers became hairier, boozier and scarier.

 

[Starfighter]

I went over this in the Morkel vs Broad thread, the importance of being memorable. Lillee was the first great fast bowler in the era when television was beginning to really have its eventually enormous impact. Yes there was John Snow but he missed a lot of tests due to stupidity and was much more introverted on the field, while Lillee was that real demonstrative, extrovert arsehole type I detest but that the Australian cricketing culture loves. There have been quite a few superior bowlers statistically (although few match his wickets per match, which would help on the memory front with all those big hauls he took), but I daresay none before and few since have projected such a strong personality on the field.

In comparison Davidson was at the start of the TV era before it really broke out (Lillee was very much a centrepiece of WSC), and was a late bloomer whose career was ended prematurely by injury, so his peak period was quite short, and he simply isn't as well remembered.

 

[weldone]

Lillee epitomises that period which replaced the stiff upper lip/black and white period of earlier, when cricketers became hairier, boozier and scarier.

I went over this in the Morkel vs Broad thread, the importance of being memorable. Lillee was the first great fast bowler in the era when television was beginning to really have its eventually enormous impact. Yes there was John Snow but he missed a lot of tests due to stupidity and was much more introverted on the field, while Lillee was that real demonstrative, extrovert arsehole type I detest but that the Australian cricketing culture loves. There have been quite a few superior bowlers statistically (although few match his wickets per match, which would help on the memory front with all those big hauls he took), but I daresay none before and few since have projected such a strong personality on the field.

In comparison Davidson was at the start of the TV era before it really broke out (Lillee was very much a centrepiece of WSC), and was a late bloomer whose career was ended prematurely by injury, so his peak period was quite short, and he simply isn't as well remembered.

I have already covered the 'scary' part. Your posts seem to suggest 'popularity' as a measure. Now if we consider popularity to be a measure then Shahid Afridi should be in the all AT XIs in all formats.

 

[harsh.ag]

It looks like you haven't come in here with your mind made up at all and it is due to this reason that I ask people to try and convince you of something subjective.

 

[weldone]

It looks like you haven't come in here with your mind made up at all and it is due to this reason that I ask people to try and convince you of something subjective.

What are you trying to say? Sorry I don't understand your post at all.

 

[Starfighter]

I have already covered the 'scary' part. Your posts seem to suggest 'popularity' as a measure. Now if we consider popularity to be a measure then Shahid Afridi should be in the all AT XIs in all formats.

I think the last line of my first paragraph is the best reason. It is true that Johnson may be scarier than Lillee, and Afridi may be more popular. But it is the image that sticks in peoples minds, the personality, that is what places Lillee where he is. If you look at what contemporary players say about him they so often nominate him as the best, even if they seemingly found others more difficult to play. Because Lillee projected an image that no-one else really had at that point, and it impressed itself on peoples' minds. It's that which people will write about and will be recorded in the history books.

Afridi himself is a good example of this. Anyone looking purely at his record would conclude (in my opinion correctly) that he was fairly mediocre and perhaps better as a bowler than a batsman. Yet he was able to construct an image as a destructive hitter, far better than someone with an average of 23, while his bowling is so often seems to be forgotten. Because he scored a rate rarely seen and put in some exceptional performances, both in their notability and their rarity.

 

[Red]

Lillee is in there because he displayed the tenacity and drive to win games, he was the ultimate competitor. But he was no mere thug, by any means. He was a highly intelligent, combative cricketer.

Gideon Haigh says it better than I will : Gideon Haigh on Dennis Lillee: Legends of cricket | Cricket | ESPNcricinfo

I take no umbrage at someone preferring Davo, he was a brilliant cricketer. But I'd want Lillee in my team, every time. The consummate fast bowler.