2 Overseas Players - Do you Agree??

[jf2001]

Bob Willis has been railing against overseas players and in particular the likes of James Bryant and co - the EU national with a passport allowing him to play county cricket here.
He argues that these type of players are killing the county game and we should make the COunty Championship an English only place or at least figure 9 English players. (Gloucestershire would be stuffed...)
He goes onto say that the less English players play then the more likely the national team will suffer.

Any thoughts??

For the record, I believe that 2 overseas players are good for the game as there are some top quality players over here like Jontie Rhodes and Wasim Akram who will improve the quality of cricket played. Also young players who do get their chance (Matt Wood etc) will improve from facing the likes of Akram instad of lesser English players. I appeciate the point about danger for the test team but I honestly believe county cricket has produced good players and there are some superb young players out there. The Academy are churning out exciting players and 2 overseas signings isn't ruining that. Yes it means les chances for English players but then that just means those English lads that do come through like Matt Wood, Ian Bell, Mark Wallace are more likely to make the grade.

www.somersettalk.co.uk

 

[marc71178]

My view has always been that although these EU players are taking an English player place, it's likely to be the worst English player dropping out, thus increasing competition, and making these players realise they have to actually perform to remain in a job.

 

[Cloete]

i dunno about the EU places. but the 2 overseas players should be allowed. I feel it raises the standard of county cricket. please don't bite my head off for this marc!! i deliberately bolded the I.

 

[marc71178]

Why would I bite your head off if I agree with you?

FWIW, we cannot stop the EU players from coming in, by law!

 

[Frome Exile]

Point of information

In fairness to James Bryant, he's here on a British passport, has British parents, and has stated his intention to qualify for and hopefully play for England.

All that at a time when there's every good chance he might stand a better chance of getting a game in South Africa's middle order in the next eighteen months or so. If the old guard that are left after the post-WC clear-out don't start to perform again soon I can foresee calls for further swingeing changes!

Of course, with the quota system in South African sport, it's just possible that JB might consider that the fact that he's white will reduce his chances of selection! Just a thought.

On the original point, I think two overseas players is good; provided they're good enough. To get a work permit as a footballer (from outside the EU) you have to have gained a certain number of caps or played a certain number of games in a top domestic league in the preceding years. Perhaps there could be something similar. Say, only full internationals, A-internationals under 25 or Under19 Internationals can be selected as overseas players? Maybe.

Also, bear in mind that even if a player has dual nationality (like Andrew Symonds, I think) once he's played a full International match for (say) Australia, he will henceforth be considered as an overseas player for the purposes of English First-Class cricket.

On the subject of Willis, I just think he's a miserable old whinger who thinks everything was better in "the good old days"! The natural successor to Freddie Trueman!

 

[Rik]

I think with all the EU qualified players we really don't need 2 overseas players...most teams already have 3!!!

I can't see how most of the 2nd overseas players like Mclean and Mahmood are supposed to improve the competition, they just seem to be taking the places that could be taken by a young player, Somerset have a lot of bowling talent so did they really need Mclean? As for Surrey...I thought Rikki Clarke was supposed to have a go but it seems like Mahmood might take his place...young player's place taken by overseas player...and it's supposed to strengthen England in the long run???

 

[Langeveldt]

I dont agree with it, but only because the SA team are losing backup players, they are dropping like flies..

I think they do make county cricket stronger though...

 

[Rik]

I dont agree with it, but only because the SA team are losing backup players, they are dropping like flies..

I think they do make county cricket stronger though...

Yes they make county cricket stronger...but county cricket is supposed to be the feeder for the national team...so how does picking someone who's not eligible for the national side going to help England win more games? It's not...not unless the players get here young enough and do "a Hick"

 

[Langeveldt]

I think the English game will be stronger when guys like Pietersen and Bryant qualify for England...
If the English player is good enough, they wont get dropped for a Saffer, it only increases competition a bit..

 

[Rik]

I think the English game will be stronger when guys like Pietersen and Bryant qualify for England...
If the English player is good enough, they wont get dropped for a Saffer, it only increases competition a bit..

There are very few overseas or EU players I don't see get a game, it's because they are usually payed more than the kids and the clubs feel they have an obligation to play them. Also you don't really know how a young player will turn out till you give them a go, and most won't get a go.

Re: Pietersen...I can't wait!

 

[marc71178]

Yes they make county cricket stronger...but county cricket is supposed to be the feeder for the national team...so how does picking someone who's not eligible for the national side going to help England win more games? It's not...not unless the players get here young enough and do "a Hick"

The competition faced by English players is harder, thus meaning they have to improve to compete, thus they are stronger when they reach the International arena.

 

[Rik]

The competition faced by English players is harder, thus meaning they have to improve to compete, thus they are stronger when they reach the International arena.

In a few years we could end up with half the team not being eligible to play for England, where will the young players get a chance?

The CC is the feeder league for the English national team, which other leagues around the world have an increasing number of players not qualified to play for the national team moving in? Not South Africa, not Australia, nope not even India...why should we be so different?

 

[marc71178]

One of the main reason for that is the fact that their seasons all intertwine, so people tend to stick in their own country.

For me 2 overseas players is the right number, and we can't legally stop holders of EU passports playing.

 

[Rik]

One of the main reason for that is the fact that their seasons all intertwine, so people tend to stick in their own country.

For me 2 overseas players is the right number, and we can't legally stop holders of EU passports playing.

To me 1 is, because we have enough non qualified players coming in from the EU Rule. Most of the 2nd overseas players are like Mclean...jobbing pros wanting the money but not really bringing anything special...

 

[Frome Exile]

How about some optimism!?!?

He might yet prove to be something very special.

 

[Rik]

Re: How about some optimism!?!?

He might yet prove to be something very special.

Has he ever before? :P

 

[Langeveldt]

Well if there are 18 counties with two overseas players, there are bound to be some jobbing people who are there are there for the money..

I dont think there are many more SA players with EU passports though, I hope not anyway

 

[Rik]

Well if there are 18 counties with two overseas players, there are bound to be some jobbing people who are there are there for the money..

I dont think there are many more SA players with EU passports though, I hope not anyway

Well there is also the other problem in that ok the overseas players are fine players in their own right, but however good they are, Stewart Law, Jamie Cox, Mike Kasprowicz, Matt Elliot, Mike Di Venuto, Nixon Mclean and to a lesser extent (due to age or potential), Nantie Hayward, Dewald Pretorius, Simon Katich, Scott Brant, Ashley Noffke, Andre Nel, Brad Hodge and Mike Hussey are not regular internationals and it's the excitement of seeing a regular international playing that brings up the membership, remember Notts and Shoaib? Their membership shot up. Because of the increase in International cricket played, stars like Kallis and McGrath cannot make an entire English season. Out of all the overseas players playing in England this season, the only ones that will really draw a crowd in my opinion are:

Martin Love
Harbajan (If he ever gets on the field)
Sehwag
Afridi (well something's going to happen)
Chris Cairns (if he's fit)
Jonty Rhodes, Andy Flower and Wasim Akram (retired so they are available for the season, had fine International careers too)
Shane Bond
Saqlain
Maybe Razzaq, MacGill and Mushy.

That just leaves Andrew Hall, Murray Goodwin (retired from Internationals), Azhar Mahood, Andy Symonds (and his cover, Greg Blewett) and Ian Harvey. Some of these are quite regular Internationals or have done well in the past but just don't have that real crowd pulling factor.

32 Overseas players (with Warwickshire yet to pick their 2nd) and 13 have proven themselves at the top level...isn't that like it was before we brought the 2nd overseas player over?

 

[jf2001]

Standards

There's been much talk of taking english people's places but as long as the foreign players are better than those english blokes who would've played - whats the problem? We don't want to water down the CC. The best young players will cut it regardless of EU players - Matt Wood. Those that don't aren't good enough anyway - am I simplifying things too much??

 

[Langeveldt]

Well dont people think that the county cricket was stronger when there were two overseas players playing? I wouldnt know, i wasnt around then