Why England's pre-Ashes hype was crazy and possibly doomed

No one is denying the quality of this England team.

They have had some great results over the last 2 years and are worthy of their status as #2 in the world.

Yet is seemed that most of England, including it seems many on this message board, thought that the Ashes were won before a ball had even been bowled.

Ridiculous hype, stupid newspaper headlines & moronic quotes from England players (Hoggard?) merely damaged their cause even before the series began.

So what if the Aussies, who were underdone, played badly at the start of a MEANINGLESS one-day series?

Comparisons can be drawn between this England team and the Australians who toured the West Indies in 1995 and regained the Sir Frank Worrell trophy, becoming world #1, de-throning the Windies.

There was little pre-series hype by comparison. Australia knew they were in with a shot and that the Windies were aging, but the sheer quality of the WI team meant that Aust would have to play at their very best, which they did, playing tough, intelligent, agressive cricket.

If England had just shut the f*** up and played hard cricket they might have been in with a shot but now they have not only lost, they also look stupid.

Australia knew England would be tough, and raised their game accordingly. The pre-Ashes hype probably just heaped extra subconcious pressure on England & helped motivate Australia. Now that Aust is one-up, it will be hard for England to come back and Aust win the next one, the mental damage may be such that 5-0 is not impossible, rain permitting.

I think that anyone who knew anything about the game didn't believe the hype, i've thought 3-1 all along. The papers have to over-exaggerate to sell, as is the english way.

Triple Crown said:

If England had just shut the f*** up and played hard cricket they might have been in with a shot but now they have not only lost, they also look stupid.

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I can see where you're coming from, but really it would have made no difference. Nobody is thinking about the pre-series hype when they're out there on the field. It's just batsman v bowler. The whole of the cricket world just has to come to grips with the fact that whilst ever McGrath and Warne are in the Australian team together, Australia will not lose a series. And, if they do lose, it will take a super human effort ( ie Dravid and Laxman partnership in India 2001)

Some people think the pre-match comments attributed to some England players wound the Australians up to perform even better. I don't think this is the case. They are a stunningly strong side who, if they play anywhere close to their best will beat England every time. If England perform to their best and Australias performance drops a notch or two the series could still be interesting. I predicted 4-0 at the start of the series and see no reason to change that prediction. The one drawn match would more than likely be due to bad weather.

TBH I think that pretty much all of the english people on this forum were trying to talk down their chances and were being very realistic. I think that just shows the quality of posters we have on this forum. Sure they were hopeful of England doing something special and probably still are but they wern't getting carried away because they knew how good this aussie side was.

Newspapers are like a self-fulfilling prophecy - they only actually exist to sell themselves (and to wrap chips in, of course). There is an enormous amount of hype in the UK national press because we live in an age where sensationalism is all the rage, and of course that's what sells. Ergo, print sensationalist stories (you have Dennis Lillee for that now sadly Hooksey is no longer with us, but of course his moronic sensationalism tends to be backed up by your sensational team).

As for the Brits on this forum - well, after the Twenty20 and the first ODI, one person joined the forum and immediately started a thread called 'The Ashes Are Coming Home' - and he had the rise taken out of him more than a little. I cannot recall much support for his claims.

As for Hoggard, well, the day before his diatribe, The Times announced that they had signed up him and Warney as their 'men on the inside', so to speak, to give the dressing-room views. Don't you think that too was likely to be a ruse to sell newspapers, him fulfilling his part of the bargain?

I just had a look and could find only one person (from either side) who backed England to win the Ashes in the predictions so can't really throw that one at us.

All I thought was that we might be competitive for this one (but still lose) which we can still be.

Triple Crown said:

Yet is seemed that most of England, including it seems many on this message board, thought that the Ashes were won before a ball had even been bowled.

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I couldn't disagree more about this forum.

I would say that just about every English member who's been here any length of time has been tipping an Aus win from the start.

Admittedly I went from 1-3 to 2-3; but that had more to do with GBH's return to form, the KP factor, Gilly being Fred's bunny, and the attacking nature of both sides which had me thinking a drawn game was unlikely (weather permitting) rather than a succuming to press hysteria. I still think we can win a live test if we play near 100%, and we have a fairly decent record at the Oval. The Ashes though, are not coming home.

twctopcat said:

I think that anyone who knew anything about the game didn't believe the hype, i've thought 3-1 all along. The papers have to over-exaggerate to sell, as is the english way.

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Yep that is the answer simple as. It is like as if they cannot help it. Only time i have seen their hype backed up by perfomance was Rugby World Cup and kelly Holmes Olympic exploits.

Most of the English people in the forum did not give England much of a chance in the series as opposed to the hyped tabloids.

Yep nice to see vaughans confidence is sky high. When asked will they win a test, vaughan answered we'll get close. Ponting on the other hand was asked " will you win 5 nil" and his answer was we're a chance.

I dont know if any of you guys read the Wisden cricketer? possibelly quiet a few, in the July 2005 twc there was a interview with David Boon and the interviewer asked Did you mind seeing your compatriot Rod Marsh coming over to help england by setting up their academyboon answered
I suppose deep down you might think 'what the hell's he doing?' but for a period the gap between Australia and the rest of the world was too big. The game is bigger then anything. If we have someone like Rod Marsh who is in a position to help set up the english academy and bring forward players, then that is only good for world cricket - as long as he doesn't produce players who are going to beat us! The game will die if world cricket not remain strong. When a gap between one nation and the rest becomes too great there's no competition and the game will fall.

and that the idea i totally agree with. England is coming closer and closer and maybe someday this year but maybe in 2 ashes away England will come out stronger. not yet i think.

Triple Crown said:

No one is denying the quality of this England team.

They have had some great results over the last 2 years and are worthy of their status as #2 in the world.
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I am.

It's only due to the poor overall standard of cricket, australia aside.

India are second best, Then come England. The best of a bad bunch.

Hardly an endorsement of quality, just less bad.

So you say England are only second because they've beaten a lot of rubbish, but then say a side who can't even beat the rubbish are second?

Well... they did, it was just quite some time ago, before either England or India became as good as they were in 2003\04 and 2004 respectively.

Triple Crown said:

a MEANINGLESS one-day series

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Meaningless only in the context of the Test-series.
In the context of many other things - WC2007 to the fore - that ODI series was extremely meaningful and, possibly, quite significant.

luckyeddie said:

we live in an age where sensationalism is all the rage

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YAY!!!!!!!!!!

The biggest mistake England have made this summer is opening their mouths..

The only way you can compete with Australia is if they feel like the challenge is not such a big proposition and they get complacent (Bangladesh ODI?) .. Firing the greatest team thats ever lived up is so stupid and I can't stand reading it in the papers every day

Triple Crown said:

Yet is seemed that most of England, including it seems many on this message board, thought that the Ashes were won before a ball had even been bowled.

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I think that the large majority of English members on this board have been very "realistic" - maybe even overly pessimistic.

Can I ask what the expectations of the average English spectator was, as opposed to what the tabloids were spouting? Or did their optimism spread to the general public?