The ``ASHES`` and the Pietersen diillema

This is probably one of the most eagerly anticipated ashes series in reecent times simply due to the fact that my home boys england look that they have a team that can challenge the aussies for the ashes.But lets go back to the 2001 ashes in england, england had one 4 series in a row (Zimbabwe, West indies for the first time in 31 years and unexpected sub-continent triumps in pakistan and sri lanka). All lot was said about england new ball attack of gough and caddick being able to ruffle the like sof slater, hayden, the waughs, ponting gilchrist etc but has we all know that didn't happen, the aussies hammered england 4-1 and it would have been 5-0 if gilly wasn't so kind in headingley.
But now england will go into the ahses with 5 straight series win and with a better talent to call up on that in 2001. Lets look at the batting trescothick, strauss, vaughan, pietersen, freddie, thorpe, bell, butcher and key. A lot of people have argued about the keeping spot between jones and read but for me jones is the man better bat and give him time people his keeping will tighten up. In the bowling hoggy, the durham destroyer, the welch wrecker, the king of spain, freddie, wonder boy anderson and if england want horses for courses jon lewis or martin saggers.

but my bet is that australia will win again looking at the way the kiwis were just smashed 5-0, if the poms r going to win they have to conquer that superb aussie bowling attack with glenn at is metronomical best, gillespie with all his tricks, lee with his frightening pace, kasper with all his variety and then warney. I am english by heart, but the aussies r my favourite team but i cant see england winning the ashes.

what do u blokes think

Gotta be honest & say I struggle to see anything bar a comfortable win for Oz.

Winning in SA was a big result for us & we did it without many of our players really turning up. Harmy seemed to be pining for the North-East, Thorpey played a couple of decent innings but was below par elsewhere (I hope age isn't finally catching up with him), Vaughan was a good skipper but distinctly average batter, both Butch & Key failed to impress @ 3 & Geraint was average with the bat and worse with the gloves.

Plusses from the tour were Hoggy & Fred's bowling, Strauss (obviously) & Tres finally doing it away from Blighty.

KP looks to the manor born; I know it's tempting to read more into ODI form as a guide for tests than is sometimes prudent, but jeez he showed a good temperament over there. He didn't get the friendliest of welcomes from his former countrymen, but took it in his considerable stride. You'll do for me, fella!

The big downer is we need all our blokes at the absolute top of their game to be competitive. Harmy really is the biggest worry (Fred's heel notwithstanding). To look for a silver-lining I'd say Harmy looks a mood bowler who has to find his rhythm; luckily he has 2 tests v Bangladesh to find that rhythm before the main event.

Overall about 3-1 to Oz, but hope I'm wrong.

I think we'll know by lunch on the first day, the opening exchanges will set the tone for the entire series.

aussie

not always mate i remember quite recently in the australia vs pakistan series, the aussies were all a muck in perth 78 for 5 at lunch at perth and if ur saying that the first session sets tone for series ur a bit off their because australia won in a canter

aussie said:

not always mate i remember quite recently in the australia vs pakistan series, the aussies were all a muck in perth 78 for 5 at lunch at perth and if ur saying that the first session sets tone for series ur a bit off their because australia won in a canter

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Fair enough & in 1997 we bowled the Aussies out for (I think) 118 in the 1st test. Still lost 3-2 & that was flattering as we won the "dead" 6th test.

But lately Neil's spot-on as far as The Ashes goes; we get off to a poo start & never recover until the urn's gone for another two years.

aussie

ha ha ha, but i think england have a better chance when we go down under in 2006 just before the world cup england would still have the same kind of team and should be an even more accomplished unit by then while the mighty aussies will have a few new faces then

oz will win harmy got battered by mayhaya (!!) hows he gonna handle gilchrist??

aussie

What do blokes think about KP being in the english eleven, do u really think he is ready to face glenn and his men or should the selectors think with experience and go with butcher, at least i would

Nah, gotta go with KP.

Vaughan to 3, Thorpe to 4, KP slots in @ 5.

It's a long while since Butch made a test ton & he seems to be forever finding new & exciting ways to get himself injured.

aussie

ha ha ha i like that mate, maybe butch is doing what the say over in jamaica ``OBIYA``, well i dont want KP to play and fail and everyone going down on him because he is a fantastic find for me

Big Kev has lashings of self-confidence (a lotta posters here have bagged him for it before now) so I reckon we should give him his head. I've no doubt he'd back himself to do well.

It is a big ask against McGrath, Dizzy, Warne and all, but he couldn't have done more than he's done so far. I don't wanna tempt fate too much, but I really like the look of the big fella.

How old is KP

24 I think.

aussie

KP is 24 and will 25 on june 27

aussie

hey have any of u blokes ever been over to the caribbean to see cricket

I sure as hell hope that England win, aussie dominence is becomming too much to bare.

With trescothick, piterson, flintoff, strauss and vaughn - eng definatley have the batting quality to take them through, its the bowling that worries me. Flintoff will be comming back from injury and will lack rythem (sp?), harmison has been found wanting of late and the less said about giles, the better. Kabir Ali (as much as it hurts me to say it) doesnt really look test standard and simon Jones is hit and miss. Anderson is still living off that performance against pak in the WC, he hasnt really done anything since.

Having said that, I think eng are probably the only team around that could give the aussies a run for their money (in test matches at least!)

i dont really follow english cricmuch but from what im reading i see no mention of hoggard. he not worthy ?

BoyBrumby said:

But lately Neil's spot-on as far as The Ashes goes; we get off to a poo start & never recover until the urn's gone for another two years.

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In each of the last 3 it's always been before the start of the series that things have started to go wrong.

BoyBrumby said:

Nah, gotta go with KP.

Vaughan to 3, Thorpe to 4, KP slots in @ 5.

It's a long while since Butch made a test ton & he seems to be forever finding new & exciting ways to get himself injured.

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With Butcher missing the start of the season, sadly, I don't see him starting the series. Which means Pietersen will have to fail (and I really don't want that) for him to get in.
Yet I believe beyond all question that the side's stronger with him in it.
And anyone who thinks Trescothick's better than him is delusional.

BoyBrumby said:

Winning in SA was a big result for us & we did it without many of our players really turning up. Harmy seemed to be pining for the North-East, Thorpey played a couple of decent innings but was below par elsewhere (I hope age isn't finally catching up with him), Vaughan was a good skipper but distinctly average batter, both Butch & Key failed to impress @ 3 & Geraint was average with the bat and worse with the gloves.

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You've got to be joking about Harmison and "pining for the North-East" - the West Indies last spring totally devalues anything there.
The fact is, some players did better than could be expected and some disappointed (Thorpe wasn't really disappointing, it was just an inevitable downturn - he couldn't go on averaging 60 forever; Butcher never got going; Vaughan likewise, really; Jones looked far too frenzied with the bat and just didn't concentrate with the gloves).

KP looks to the manor born; I know it's tempting to read more into ODI form as a guide for tests than is sometimes prudent, but jeez he showed a good temperament over there.

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And the fact that he did well in the ODIs doesn't matter much as far as Tests are concerned; his First-Class record is what matters.