Glenn Chapple - unlucky not to have played more for England ?

what do you guys think ?

Not really. A good bowler, but never one who did something that screamed "PICK ME FOR TESTS!!!!!"

Big difference between him and someone like, say, Martin Bicknell. It must be asked "how on EARTH did he get in ahead of him" to just about everyone except Cork, Caddick and Gough (of specialist bowlers with no pretensions as anything other than bowler-who-bats-a-bit - ie, not Craig White who was a true all-rounder) really.

And his old opening partner Peter Martin was always much the superior bowler. Such a shame he had to retire through injury TBH.

Absolutely. In his prime he was easily as good as some of the bowlers who played for England. Its a shame when he finally got his call up recently he got himself injured

Richard said:

And his old opening partner Peter Martin was always much the superior bowler. Such a shame he had to retire through injury TBH.

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He was 35. It's not like he was robbed of the best years of his careeer.

35? Could've sworn he was at least a year if not 2 or even 3 younger than that.

Still - good bowlers can go on to 38 or so given good fitness.

Juxtapose him next to Flintoff, Mahmood and Anderson, his Lanchashire teammates, and questions must be asked.

Surely - surely - you're not suggesting that Mahmood > Chapple?

These are the bowlers who've played for Lancs in recent years who, IMO, are superior to Mahmood:
Peter Martin
Glen Chapple
Ian Austin
James Anderson
Dominic Cork (import from Derbyshire in 2004)
Tom Smith
Kyle Hogg (YES! Has actually been a semi-decent OD bowler of late)
Maybe even Oliver Newby

No, not at all. Even I, as I Mahmood fan (not only for his crikceting skills, but for other reasons too), I'm just stating that if guys like Mahmood, Flintoff and ANderson have all had such international exposure, their teammate, Chapple should of atleast had a better look in than the ODI against Scotland.

Also add to the point, all the bits-and-pieces all-rounders England have used (not sure whether this was before Chapple's 'time' though).

TBH England have used bits-and-pieces players pretty much non-stop, and are likely to continue to do so. Michael Yardy is currently still very much in the picture.

Really, though, Flintoff and Anderson have done more to merit selection than Chapple, quite a bit more in fact. Not least the fact that Flintoff bats as well as bowls.

gettingbetter said:

Even I, as I Mahmood fan (not only for his crikceting skills, but for other reasons too)

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Oh really...?

Richard said:

TBH England have used bits-and-pieces players pretty much non-stop, and are likely to continue to do so. Michael Yardy is currently still very much in the picture.

Really, though, Flintoff and Anderson have done more to merit selection than Chapple, quite a bit more in fact. Not least the fact that Flintoff bats as well as bowls.

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You'll hear my Flintoff rant when in that all-rounder thread whenI finish my assessments. Anderson? Thats bordrline.

Richard said:

Oh really...?

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As an Indian-Australia, its interesting and exciting to see individuals like Mahmood, Panear, Bopara and co play for an predominately Anglo-Saxon country.

Back when England were truely using bits and pieces all rounders, Chapple wasnt really that highly rated with the bat. His batting is a product of the last 4 years or so. He's always been a good OD bowler (can still remember the 1996 Nat West final), and really should've been given a try back then. As times gone on his battings improved, his bowlings gone from explosive to consistant. Can understand why he was behind the likes of White/Ealham for years, as they were better alrounders. As for test cricket, well, he couldn't hold a candle to Gough, Fraser, Caddick, probably Cork, and wasnt strong enough back then as a batsman for an all rounder slot. Now he's not exactly young, and England do need to think of the future. Believe if used he'd do a good job, and probably would of if called up years back (think he was called up to the test squad the time Kabir Ali made his debut, but again missed out due to injury), just one of those players who can feel slightly peeved not to have had the chance, but wasn't exactly the best in the land

cpr said:

Back when England were truely using bits and pieces all rounders, Chapple wasnt really that highly rated with the bat. His batting is a product of the last 4 years or so. He's always been a good OD bowler (can still remember the 1996 Nat West final), and really should've been given a try back then. As times gone on his battings improved, his bowlings gone from explosive to consistant. Can understand why he was behind the likes of White/Ealham for years, as they were better alrounders. As for test cricket, well, he couldn't hold a candle to Gough, Fraser, Caddick, probably Cork, and wasnt strong enough back then as a batsman for an all rounder slot. Now he's not exactly young, and England do need to think of the future. Believe if used he'd do a good job, and probably would of if called up years back (think he was called up to the test squad the time Kabir Ali made his debut, but again missed out due to injury), just one of those players who can feel slightly peeved not to have had the chance, but wasn't exactly the best in the land

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That's a basis for my argument. Just off the top of my head; Saggers, Giddins, Johnson?, Plunkett, Mahmood, Tremlett and many others, and this guy played a ODI against Scotland!?

gettingbetter said:

You'll hear my Flintoff rant when in that all-rounder thread whenI finish my assessments.

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Anderson? Thats bordrline.

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Anderson in 2003 simply demanded selection. Whether this is right or wrong is debatable, but he had performed sensationally, beyond any reasonable expectations. Since then, he's mostly been handled poorly, but poorly in a way that it's often difficult to avoid.

Right now Chapple's career is more notable than Anderson's but Anderson possesses skills Chapple never has and even if he never has a fulsome Test career I still think he may well end-up a better bowler than Chapple for those reasons.

As an Indian-Australia, its interesting and exciting to see individuals like Mahmood, Panear, Bopara and co play for an predominately Anglo-Saxon country.

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I just don't like to see terrible players get picked TBH, regardless of background.

gettingbetter said:

That's a basis for my argument. Just off the top of my head; Saggers, Giddins, Johnson?, Plunkett, Mahmood, Tremlett and many others, and this guy played a ODI against Scotland!?

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Saggers, Giddins and Johnson all very much have a case to be considered at least and I mean at least equals to Chapple. Johnson particularly was at one point a quite special talent.

cpr said:

Believe if used he'd do a good job, and probably would of if called up years back (think he was called up to the test squad the time Kabir Ali made his debut, but again missed out due to injury)

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Think Kabir was just prefered TBH. And Chapple was averaging 38 that season anyway, I never understood why he was picked then.

Been waiting for your post on this thread tho. Just a shame the Chapple avatar was gone by the time it happened.

gettingbetter said:

That's a basis for my argument. Just off the top of my head; Saggers, Giddins, Johnson?, Plunkett, Mahmood, Tremlett and many others, and this guy played a ODI against Scotland!?

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Johnson in my mind was too overlooked for England in his own right. Saggers and Giddens were both bowling pretty well at the time of their selections, better than Chapple was. As for Plunkett, Mahmood and Tremlett, there all current selections, when the notion at the minute is to prepare for the future. Chapple hasn't exactly set the FC game alight with his bowling recently either.

Oh and wasnt his ODI against Ireland?

Richard said:

Think Kabir was just prefered TBH. And Chapple was averaging 38 that season anyway, I never understood why he was picked then.

Been waiting for your post on this thread tho. Just a shame the Chapple avatar was gone by the time it happened.

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Yeah, he had to go i'm afraid. Much as he's my favourite player, i'm not completely blinkered to say he should have 100 caps by now.

Chapple simply not of international calibre, pretty much at any time throughout his career. An absolute gem for Lancs though

You can't know whether he's international class without him playing.

I don't like his chances, but I didn't like Simon Jones' chances either and even despite hardly ending-up with the outstanding career he looked like he might just get at one point, he still performed wonders in the summer of 2005.

And Jones is by no means the only one.

Richard said:

You can't know whether he's international class without him playing.

I don't like his chances, but I didn't like Simon Jones' chances either and even despite hardly ending-up with the outstanding career he looked like he might just get at one point, he still performed wonders in the summer of 2005.

And Jones is by no means the only one.

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we have had this discussion before I think. Without looking at a players stats etc, you can tell when someone has it, and someone doesnt, and when someone might have it. Chapple never looked like he had it to be an international bowler. Some players reach their level of competance and I think Chapple reached his.

Simon Jones, despite having no real success domestically, was called into the England team, and it was apparent in those early days that he had a spark which could propel him into success at international level, which he attained dramatically in the Ashes. Even if he never plays again, he was obviously a bowler of that calibre.

Its about reading the game, no statsguru

Swervy said:

Its about reading the game, no statsguru

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It goes in my Siggy.