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**Official** New Zealand in England

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
I am not sure I like the idea of changing keepers AGAIN. England have been constantly juggling keepers for the last year and a half now and its impossible at this point for anyone to get settled into the side. I thought mustard was just starting to get into the groove and provided some fresh impetus at the start of the order before he got dropped and replaced by Ambrose. Ambrose seems to have a decent List A record, so lets just hope that they stick it out with him for a little bit.
I have no problem with Ambrose playing at all, gives the lowe order great strenght. Its just that the top-order has a great hole which is again is very unfortunate that is the case (Tres retiring) give the ODI has put together its best combo of players in a long while.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
I propose that Vikram Solanki's wicket keeping is of a similar standard to Prior and that he is a much more accomplished one day opening batsman.

Now I'm not suggesting that Solanki be given the gloves for England in ODIs, but it makes as much sense as giving them back to Prior right now..
Ha, this proves clearly how roughly Prior's keeping has been harshly ridiculed on CW. Do you people really think given the swealtering conditions in SRI with Sanga/Jayawardene just piling it on it hot SRI sun that many other keepers in the world today would have taken those chances?.
 

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Ha, this proves clearly how roughly Prior's keeping has been harshly ridiculed on CW. Do you people really think given the swealtering conditions in SRI with Sanga/Jayawardene just piling it on it hot SRI sun that many other keepers in the world today would have taken those chances?.
Look Prior is utter turd. He's least turd when batting in Tests but he's still sub-standard even then. Even his mother wouldn't pick him for England's ODI side.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
One can't say that since the man never got the chance to fully prove himself as an ODI opener.
What?! He batted there 19 times (plus 1 at three) in 2005/06 and 2007 and did sod-all. He's also batted there for Sussex from 2004 onwards and, apart from in 2004 and 2005, he's done sod-all for Sussex either.
 

PhoenixFire

International Coach
Chris Read IMO. Looked pretty class in the 20-20 against us lot on Friday, plus he is a gun keeper, best in the country by a fair bit.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Chris Read IMO. Looked pretty class in the 20-20 against us lot on Friday, plus he is a gun keeper, best in the country by a fair bit.
ICL-contracted though. Not really worth the can of worms he'd open.

What exactly is wrong with Tim Ambrose? You could argue that it was slightly harsh to drop Mustard on so few games I suppose, especially so soon after playing his best innings and the mere fact that it allowed England to play Dimitri instead of Wright, but ten games isn't the shortest lifespan really and calling for Ambrose's dropping after one game in which he faced one ball is hardly great process either. :p

Ambrose a good wicket keeper and he has a pretty good List A record with the bat, especially last season where he averaged over 70. Good overall technique too.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
The England selectors should be shot for selecting Wright over Mascarenhas.
To be fair, Mascarenhas is not an opening batsman. Then again, neither is Wright really.

That was essentially the point of Mustard - he opened domestically, and was doing so with some success. It allowed England to play Mascarenhas at 7 where the keeper would usually bat. As it is now, Ambrose occupies that spot, so the selectors are looking for that hard-hitting, seam-bowling allrounder to also be an opening bat. Wright's done it to some degree for Sussex whereas Mascarenhas is a bowler who bats a bit.

I'm sure you knew all that tbh, but sometimes it's nice to have the logic of something so dire actually explained on paper. :p
 

PhoenixFire

International Coach
True, that.

But for Christ's sake, Mascarenhas averages like 31 @ an SR of 133 odd with the bat and he is a gun fielder. His economy rate of 3.38 isn't too shabby either. Luke Wright is pretty crap in all honesty.
 

Jamee999

Hall of Fame Member
  1. OPENER - WK
  2. Bell
  3. Pietersen
  4. Collingwood
  5. Shah
  6. Bopara
  7. Mascarenhas
  8. Swann
  9. Broad
  10. Sidebottom
  11. Anderson

imo. That'd be ideal. The gap is Mustard atm, but that's the gap. Don't like Bopara at 4, think he's much more of a 6 - and Colly and Shah are both better in the middle imo. Lots of bowling options as well - 5 front-line + 2 part-time + 2 back-up.
 

Leslie1

U19 Captain
The weakness of our batting lineup (Marshall at 3) can be easily fixed even with How opening, Taylor is more than equipped to bat at this position and has scored two of his hundreds at 3. So why on earth is Marshall there?!?
I don't think he is "equipped" to bat here. Too early, too soon. And he is our best batsman next to McCullum, and McCullum is already throwing his wicket away opening for us (rather than bat lower down).

Maybe when we have solidity in the middle (we don't even have that at the moment), then move Taylor up. At this stage, you need to balance the lineup with nice key batsmen spread. To avoid losing wickets in clumps.

Doing this in formula:

J How
McCullum (KEY)
somebody expendable (Greg Hay :D)
Taylor (KEY)
Flynn
Oram (KEY)
somebody (Fulton probably)
Vettori (KEY)
.....
etc etc etc...
 

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
I don't think he is "equipped" to bat here. Too early, too soon. And he is our best batsman next to McCullum, and McCullum is already throwing his wicket away opening for us (rather than bat lower down).

Maybe when we have solidity in the middle (we don't even have that at the moment), then move Taylor up. At this stage, you need to balance the lineup with nice key batsmen spread. To avoid losing wickets in clumps.

Doing this in formula:

J How
McCullum (KEY)
somebody expendable (Greg Hay :D)
Taylor (KEY)
Flynn
Oram (KEY)
somebody (Fulton probably)
Vettori (KEY)
.....
etc etc etc...
He's perfectly equipped to bat there. Firstly the ball doesn't swing nearly as much in ODI's, so it means his aggressive tendencies won't be as exposed. Secondly he'll have more time with the field up, allowing him the chance to make plenty of runs with those wonderful coverdrives of his. There was never any acceptable reason why he was moved out of the number 3 spot in the first place. When Ryder came into the team it was acceptable, as you needed a steady player at 3 in order to try and keep things steady in case one or both of the openers got out early. But with him gone, and How opening, there is no reason why Taylor shouldn't be opening. And having James Marshall occupying his place instead is just criminal.

McCullum
How
Taylor
Fulton
Styris
Flynn
Oram
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
What?! He batted there 19 times (plus 1 at three) in 2005/06 and 2007 and did sod-all. He's also batted there for Sussex from 2004 onwards and, apart from in 2004 and 2005, he's done sod-all for Sussex either.
As i just said what he did before he 2007 season is irrelevant for me since before then he should never have been considered for England since before he didn't look international quality.

Vs IND Prior looked fairly stable getting a few starts but didn't carry on, in comparison to Mustard who looked ok showing decent attacking intent last winter but given if iffy technique i have my doubts whether he would love our top-order problem.

Yes i know he's keeping isn't the best but i do not believe its as bad as made out here on CW since he did show improvement in SRI but he missed some chances that i felt given the circumstances i.e Sanga/Jaya just batting ENG into to submission in the final two test he missed some chances off Jaywardene & Dilshan in that final test that took the gloss of an improved series behind the stumps IMO. The selectors seeing that obviously lost faith in him & abruptly dropped him.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
ICL-contracted though. Not really worth the can of worms he'd open.

What exactly is wrong with Tim Ambrose? You could argue that it was slightly harsh to drop Mustard on so few games I suppose, especially so soon after playing his best innings and the mere fact that it allowed England to play Dimitri instead of Wright, but ten games isn't the shortest lifespan really and calling for Ambrose's dropping after one game in which he faced one ball is hardly great process either. :p

Ambrose a good wicket keeper and he has a pretty good List A record with the bat, especially last season where he averaged over 70. Good overall technique too.
Word & i have no problem giving him a run, but given the players the ENG ODI side have currently having Ambrose @ 7 doesn't give ENG the oppurtunity to be a fully balanced side. Lets look at the players once all fit should be first choices that have certain positions nailed down:

Bell
?
KP
? - backing Bopara to do well here since # 6 never suited him overall
Collingwood
Shah
Flintoff
Swann
Broad/Mascarenhas - depending on bowling conditons
Sidebottom
Anderson

Now by batting Ambrose @ 7, you would affect the newly found lower-order batting depth between positions 6-8 & bowling depth. It would be a wild move but if the selectors want to keep continuity with the keeper they pick & maybe they should try Ambrose out as an opener.
 

superkingdave

Hall of Fame Member
Word & i have no problem giving him a run, but given the players the ENG ODI side have currently having Ambrose @ 7 doesn't give ENG the oppurtunity to be a fully balanced side. Lets look at the players once all fit should be first choices that have certain positions nailed down:

Bell
?
KP
? - backing Bopara to do well here since # 6 never suited him overall
Collingwood
Shah
Flintoff
Swann
Broad/Mascarenhas - depending on bowling conditons
Sidebottom
Anderson

Now by batting Ambrose @ 7, you would affect the newly found lower-order batting depth between positions 6-8 & bowling depth. It would be a wild move but if the selectors want to keep continuity with the keeper they pick & maybe they should try Ambrose out as an opener.
pretty sure in that case Aussie, either Shah or Bopara misses out and Flintoff bats 6 with Ambrose 7, it's not rocket science, Flintoff would be too low (in ODI) at 7, and the lower order is still a hellova lot stronger than we've had in recent past with Broad at 9 and Sidey at 10. Essentially with Flintoff back it threatens Wrights place because we already have 5 frontliners + colly, especially if Bopara has kept his place above Shah as he provides another option. Then Wright's place is a lot more dependent on his batting which may see a specialist opener come in
 

Matt52

U19 Vice-Captain
He's perfectly equipped to bat there. Firstly the ball doesn't swing nearly as much in ODI's, so it means his aggressive tendencies won't be as exposed. Secondly he'll have more time with the field up, allowing him the chance to make plenty of runs with those wonderful coverdrives of his. There was never any acceptable reason why he was moved out of the number 3 spot in the first place. When Ryder came into the team it was acceptable, as you needed a steady player at 3 in order to try and keep things steady in case one or both of the openers got out early. But with him gone, and How opening, there is no reason why Taylor shouldn't be opening. And having James Marshall occupying his place instead is just criminal.

McCullum
How
Taylor
Fulton
Styris
Flynn
Oram
He has always batted three in domestic cricket as far as I can remember. I dont understand why Bracewell wants him at 4 so much. IMO even if Ryder comes back Taylor should still be at three.

Ryder
McCullum
Taylor

would be a pretty talented top three. move how down to 4 to nudge the ball around for singles when the field is spread and then whoever else after that.
 

KiWiNiNjA

International Coach
He has always batted three in domestic cricket as far as I can remember. I dont understand why Bracewell wants him at 4 so much. IMO even if Ryder comes back Taylor should still be at three.

Ryder
McCullum
Taylor

would be a pretty talented top three. move how down to 4 to nudge the ball around for singles when the field is spread and then whoever else after that.
Nan, you need How at 3 with the likes of Ryder and McCullum opening. Someone who can steady the ship, someone to break up 3 agressive batsman.
 

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