***Official*** Commonwealth Bank Tri-Series

Any confirmations?

Blaze said:

Pretty strong rumour going round that Nathan Astle has retired and is on a plane home...

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Wow...hope not. Would've liked to have seen him do well at the World Cup.

Real shame if Astle has retired. Gun bat.

Yikes, I've just read that Anderson & Lewis may not play against Aus on Friday.
Cue 400+ if Aus bat first? (Obviously they won't have the chance to pass 200 if they're batting 2nd)

Prince EWS said:

How many teams does it have to be said that Hogg is not competing with White for a place? White is the side based on his batting form... Hogg is not an ODI class #7, especially given the fact that the Australian bowling has been great recently and the batting has been a bit dodgy. Dropping a batsman for Hogg would just be stupid really.

Hogg is competiting with the Clark and Johnson for that last bowler spot. Not White, who is occupying a batting spot.

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I had a look at some stats, Hogg's batting is about on par with most other no.7's that i've seen stats of, namely Dwayne Smith, Brendon McCullum and Maharoof and there's also a few inexperienced players there like Sharma for India and Nixon for England, with Pakistan using several players including Razzaq and Ul-Haq. The only player who is significantly better as far as batting is Boucher for South Africa.

So the question I ask is why not drop White for Hogg, who is arguably the better bowler, his average of 27 and economy of 4.5 is superior to White's economy of over 7 and average of 40. In my opinion White is a player for after the World Cup, whilst Hogg still has the experience and skill to perform.

speirz said:

I had a look at some stats, Hogg's batting is about on par with most other no.7's that i've seen stats of, namely Dwayne Smith, Brendon McCullum and Maharoof and there's also a few inexperienced players there like Sharma for India and Nixon for England, with Pakistan using several players including Razzaq and Ul-Haq. The only player who is significantly better as far as batting is Boucher for South Africa.

So the question I ask is why not drop White for Hogg, who is arguably the better bowler, his average of 27 and economy of 4.5 is superior to White's economy of over 7 and average of 40. In my opinion White is a player for after the World Cup, whilst Hogg still has the experience and skill to perform.

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If Australia have any problems though, it is with the batting. The bowling has done a fine job in recent times, but the batting has had it moments of not firing - Hussey and Clarke have been heavily relied on.

Dwayne Smith would not bat 7 in a full strength West Indies lineup. If he even made the side, he would bat at 8 or 9. McCullum, although now at 7, has spent the majority of his career at 8 or 9. The fact that they are currently there for their teams doesn't make them ODI class #7s - it simply highlights the fact that their teams have little options in that area and/or are of poor standard in general.

As for Hogg being "arguably" the better bowler - there's no argument about it... he's clearly the better bowler by a huge distance. Similarly though, White is clearly a better batsman by a large distance. Batting Hogg at 7 isn't really an option given the rest of the side, how they are performing and the balance. White could possibly be dropped (although it would be a very rough call IMO) but not for Hogg. People constantly make comparisons between the two but they aren't in competition for the same place any more than Hogg and Hayden are.

can't agree with you any more mate anyways hope all you guys in australia have a rocking australian day tomorrow .

Prince EWS said:

If Australia have any problems though, it is with the batting. The bowling has done a fine job in recent times, but the batting has had it moments of not firing - Hussey and Clarke have been heavily relied on.

Dwayne Smith would not bat 7 in a full strength West Indies lineup. If he even made the side, he would not play. McCullum, although now at 7, has spent the majority of his career at 8 or 9. The fact that they are currently there for their teams doesn't make them ODI class #7s - it simply highlights the fact that their teams have little options in that area and/or are of poor standard in general.

As for Hogg being "arguably" the better bowler - there's no argument about it... he's clearly the better bowler by a huge distance. Similarly though, White is clearly a better batsman by a large distance. Batting Hogg at 7 isn't really an option given the rest of the side, how they are performing and the balance. White could possibly be dropped (although it would be a very rough call IMO) but not for Hogg. People constantly make comparisons between the two but they aren't in competition for the same place any more than Hogg and Hayden are.

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Australia's bowling has however struggled to find someone to fill the 5th bowling spot though, with White, Symonds and Clarke proving ineffective and IMO it is likely that if playing better batting opposition like South Africa, India or Sri Lanka, the 10 overs which would be split between those players could be costly. These 10 overs could go for 60+, whereas with Hogg they could go for 40, and although White might score 30-40, Hogg is still likely to contribute 20 or so runs.

prince EWS are you a gr8 fan of bear,coz he hasn't really done anything to prove his place as a bat in the side as you see even in horbart where he made 40 odd he was plumb lbw but not given and in the next to games where he had to prove his worth as a batsman he played like a slogger against england he played across the line and against kiwis he pulled needlessly.

wpdavid said:

Yikes, I've just read that Anderson & Lewis may not play against Aus on Friday.
Cue 400+ if Aus bat first? (Obviously they won't have the chance to pass 200 if they're batting 2nd)

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Wouldn't be surprised to see us get an utter, royal pasting tomorrow. Perhaps not 400+, but potentially anywhere up to 380-odd if Hussey, Symonds and White get going in the last few. The crucial element to losing Lewis and Anderson is that it means we only have one death bowler now - either Mahmood, Plunkett or Tremlett will probably have to bowl two or three overs out of the last 10, which could be disastrous.

If either of the two are scheduled to miss more than just the one game, it surely must be time to get Stuart Broad back into the squad.

speirz said:

Australia's bowling has however struggled to find someone to fill the 5th bowling spot though, with White, Symonds and Clarke proving ineffective and IMO it is likely that if playing better batting opposition like South Africa, India or Sri Lanka, the 10 overs which would be split between those players could be costly. These 10 overs could go for 60+, whereas with Hogg they could go for 40, and although White might score 30-40, Hogg is still likely to contribute 20 or so runs.

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Symonds isn't that bad as 5th bowlers go. He's not great, but it could be much worse, and it's far from the first time he's played as one of the 5 main bowlers.

Anyway, Watson made his return for Queensland today, so with any luck he'll be bowling decently again by the Chappell/Hadlee trophy, and will fill that role there and in the WC. Four specialists plus Watson and Symonds is a very balanced bowling attack IMO, one of the best Australia has had in a long time in ODIs. There's really no need to weaken the batting by picking Hogg at 7.

Agree symo might look decent against batting line ups like england and new zealand(that too the current one), but the sub-continent teams will destroy him with ease on flat west indian tracks and a balanced team needs a spinner for sure and for that either australia will have to drop their hopes of 4 man pace attack or simply play with six genuine batsmen .Otherwise they will have to use watson as there 4th seamer and hogg comes in for a quicky.

pup11 said:

prince EWS are you a gr8 fan of bear,coz he hasn't really done anything to prove his place as a bat in the side as you see even in horbart where he made 40 odd he was plumb lbw but not given and in the next to games where he had to prove his worth as a batsman he played like a slogger against england he played across the line and against kiwis he pulled needlessly.

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Can you please not use sms talk?


Thank you.

Due to all this mess about selection there is also a worst case scenario too!

Aussies seem to be living in past where in WI tracks had bounce and pace for faster men but now its quite similar to the sub-continent so in this 4 man bowling attack except glen and bracks no other bowler can be effective on such dead tracks for obvious reasons(lack of experience and variations for such tracks). So if ozi's go there and then decide ok 4 man pace attack not working they may bring hogg then and without any games under his belt

Dear mikeW i am using a phone for browsing so i need to fit the text in a limited space you see.

Hahaha

pup11 said:

Dear mikeW i am using a phone for browsing so i need to fit the text in a limited space you see.

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Still, you could puncutate things a little more.

Astle tipped to quit cricket

A senior New Zealand cricketer – possibly Nathan Astle – is poised to drop a bombshell today by announcing his retirement from international cricket.

The Canterbury batsmen is tipped to call a press conference about noon (4pm New Zealand time) in Perth, where he may pull stumps on his 11-year international career.

New Zealand team management closed ranks when asked about the development late last night, but The Press understands Astle will be joined at the press conference by New Zealand Cricket chief executive Martin Snedden.

Astle, 35, has carved out a distinguished career, particularly in the one-day arena, where he has hit 16 centuries, the most recent of which was 115 against India in Harare in 2005-06.

Astle's 16 centuries ranks him ninth equal on the all-time list behind Sachin Tendulkar (40), Sanath Jayasuriya (23), Sourav Ganguly (22), Saeed Anwar (20), Ricky Ponting (20), Brian Lara (19), Mark Waugh (18) and Desmond Haynes (17).

He has scored 7090 runs at 34.92 in one-day internationals.

The timing of Astle's possible retirement will raise eyebrows, with the World Cup in the West Indies less than two months away, but a drop in form appears to have persuaded him to quit.

By JONATHAN MILLMOW - The Press | Friday, 26 January 2007

Reports like this are usually based on inside information with its sources kept anonymous, so I'd trust the report.

Congrats to Astle on a brilliant ODI career, and if he's struggling for form & motivation then this is the best time to go out as it leaves a possibility of 7+2 more games for the likes of Vincent/Cumming/How to open the batting (Ryder is not in the WC squad of 30).

I don't think he would have been pushed. Perhaps he was told he would be dropped from the Tri-series squad after Perth if he didn't perform and replaced by another opening bat, and took this as a sign or was unhappy about the decision. Bracewell did say that he would be flexible in changing the aquad halfway through the series

Will miss him, even though his recent form has been very frustrating. He did play the greatest innings of all time though, so that's something...