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Malcolm Marshall vs Jack Hobbs

Better Player

  • Total voters
    25
B

Bolo.

International Vice-Captain
Where does the idea that Marshall was express come from? Generally considered a tier in pace below Holding, who is generally considered a tier below Thomo. IDK if you can drop down two tiers and be express.

His bowling style makes his speed very hard to judge from footage.
 
S

subshakerz

International Coach
Bolo. said:
Where does the idea that Marshall was express come from? Generally considered a tier in pace below Holding, who is generally considered a tier below Thomo. IDK if you can drop down two tiers and be express.

His bowling style makes his speed very hard to judge from footage.
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Knocking the bat out of Gavaskars hands in India.
 
Coronis

Coronis

Cricketer Of The Year
Bolo. said:
Not sure if I've seen it in the SC before. I'm sure it has happened. Balls do rear or come on faster than expected in a bunch of conditions.

I've seen that footage before. Cant really judge his speed.
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Even in the footage the commentator talks about the bounce getting him doesn’t he?
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

International Debutant
subshakerz said:
I don't think I have seen that in the SC.

Anyways, you make up your mind.

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It honestly looked more bounce than pace to me; but the speed was pretty hard to judge..... Just a hunch, but that particular ball didn't look 150 or something to me.
 
S

Swamp Witch Hattie

Cricket Spectator
kyear2 said:
The question was which express pace bowler and you reference McGrath that was at his fastest, fast medium, and most was "military medium".

And Hadlee who played many more years but only 5 more actual games and was renowned for cutting his pace very early on in his career to improve his accuracy (which Marshall didn't have to do). And also when comparing their test and FC careers Marshall did bowl more deliveries.

Objectively the longevity argument doesn't hold up.
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Hadlee did not move to FM early on in his career. He debuted FC in Jan 1972 (first ball hit to the boundary) and tests, Feb 1973 (again, first ball hit to the boundary!). I think he was exclusively off the long run (off 23 paces, F, not express) in tests until Feb/Mar 1981, against India (bowled a ball to Lillee in jest off a very short run in a Nov/Dec 1980 test, beat the bat too!). He then had his 1981 season with Notts where predominantly off the short run (off 15 paces, FM), he took 105 wickets at 14.89 and won the Player of the Year award for that year. He then had his Feb/Mar 1982 tests against Australia. He wanted to bowl off his new short run but this was not well-received by the press or the public and under pressure, he went back to his long run and took a 5WI with it which did not help him mentally as he believed that he was more effective off the short run. So that 1982 series against Australia was a mixture of short and long run. Hadlee was 30 then, in his 31st year (he turned 31 in July). He then played a couple of tests against Sri Lanka in Mar 1983 (his 39th and 40th tests) where I think he was exclusively off the short run and this continued for the rest of his career. So he was 31, in his 32nd year, when he moved permanently to the short run in tests. He retired in July 1990 (after 86 tests), just after turning 39. So about half his career was long run and the rest, short run. He did not move to FM very early on in his career, it was about halfway through!
 
S

Swamp Witch Hattie

Cricket Spectator
kyear2 said:
Greenidge, Richards, Dujon and Marshall didn't "retire"

What I'm saying is that express bowlers would have a shorter shelf life than a medium pacer, most of them break down early career. He was an exception to that and had a full 80 off test career.

Hadlee and Imran may have played longer but in the same ball park of tests, so the production and output was the same. Not to add that Hadlee after his early career drastically cut back his pace and was at best fast medium. To cram a work load of 81 tests into that period for an fast bowler is an incredible load, and he never gave less than his all. Good enough for me.

But everyone is entitled to rate players as they chose.
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He was slower off the short run but I would not say that he drastically cut back his pace. Have a look at the second wicket Hadlee takes in this clip. It's about 30 s in but it might be better to watch the whole clip (use Full screen). Listen to the commentary as well: Richie Benaud certainly thought it was fast: it startled him enough to make him hesitate with his delivery! Hadlee was off the short run here and was about a month past 32:

 
S

Swamp Witch Hattie

Cricket Spectator
PlayerComparisons said:
Was Hadlee low 80s like McGrath or quicker?
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Very hard to say. Early McGrath could be quite quick but decided to cut his pace at a younger age than Hadlee. I think Hadlee at his fastest would have topped out at 90 mph but I suspect that McGrath at his fastest would have been close to this. Hadlee off the long run might have been faster than McGrath was for most of McGrath's career but off the short run, they might have been similar. I can't prove any of this.
 
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