Jenner attacks the way the English Treat Leg spin

[Craig]

If England had a better wrist spinner, there would be more sense in playing him over a finger spinner as a wristie will turn it on any surface while finger spinners are only really effective on turning wickets.

 

[gibbsnsmith]

there is a lot bull**** on this forum about spin..

since when may i ask does the ball turn magically in the air instead of turning off the pitch and if this technique is ture please yteach me.

if you dont flight your spin you dont get selected in district or etcetera squads?

bull****

i only dont flight the ball yet im in my district squad and on the verge of my kent

p.s. that maybe cos of my selfadmittedly good batting

 

[chris.hinton]

What a load of codswallop.

No spinner has EVER gotten spin through the air - it is a physical impossibility. This would be known as swing, or drift.

The main aim of flight is to fool the batsman into thinking that the ball will pitch at a differant place/length on the wicket. So ideally, it becomes a tool in outfoxing a batsman and if a spinner chooses to neglect it (ie. Kumble) it is still possible to be successful with the amount of turn gained off the pitch.

And before you attack me, I've bowled leg-spin for 9 years now - I'd like to think I have some idea of what I am talking about.

How "Spin is in the air ,break is off the pitch" jenner says that and i have a video of him saying them words. I understand what you are saying Andre But jenner said that

I agree with you second point

Never though of attacking you

 

[Cloete]

well i'm also a leg-spinner. an Australian leg-spinner... and i have had a fair bit of coaching. in Australia we mainly try to teach a few things:

Give the ball flight..... this means above teh batsmen's eyeline. it means they have to judge where the ball bounces(leads onto my next point) and judge the spin. all of this when u have to look up which somewhat distorts ur perception of the 2 facotrs.

Always rip the ball as hard as you can. this will mean alot more spin and also you can get the ball to drift in the air. it's like when teh commenatators r saying warnie is getting alot of drift. when this happens you know he is almost unplayable. because as stated before they have to judge the 2 factors as well as the spin in the air (drift).

On the subject of flat or flighted. the coaches over here always choose flighted. sure u'll keep the runs down bowling flat spin. but just how much does ur ball actually turn? the difference is by flighting it u increase ur chance of wickets. but at the cost of more runs. chirs is somewhat right in saying u rn't truly a leggie. i mean u obviously aint spinning it too much if ur bowling flat. i'm not criticising u at all tho rich. as it's up to u. but i am just saying this is what we teach in aus. and it seems to have worked with warnie and macgill. u can see that neitehr of them bowl flat. if u really practice hard u will get good so u are pitching it perfectly in the spot where the batsmen don't know whetehr to come forward or stay back. that with alot of flight and spin and u are almost unplayable. so it is possible to keep down the runs and flight it. if i am having a good day with my accuracy i can normally pick up 3+/20-30 off 10. as it's almost unplayable. so wat jenner says is correct. it ain tthe only way... but it is certainly a very succesfull way.

 

[chris.hinton]

Good point, Andre - Anil Kumble, the only leggie to take a 10-fer in Test Cricket - bowls it flatter than most.

"Bowlers can bowl what they want, but the real bowlers are risk takers.... bowlers who filght up and get for six and do it again the same type of ball and then gets a wicket"

Makes very little sense... implies that Harmison's a real bowler and Pollock isn't..

Could you please respond to points made rather that restating and requoting.

1) No one is disputing that flighted spin can be a potent weapon, but you seem to have the opinion that flat spin is a waste of time when history has proven time and again that it isn't.

2) What is the point in going all out to get a wonderful leggie when conditions here are on balance more conducive to swing and seam - we need swing bowlers and seamers far more often..

Mushtaq Ahmed's CC figures
71 @ 25, 8 @ 38 and 14 @ 29... 93 @ 27.06

Paul Strang's CC figures
31 @ 32.71

Shane Warne's CC figures
70 @ 23.14

Warne is brilliant, but the others are not that spectacular, are they? Which other leggies have had any success here?

Looking at Wisden, 2001's CC bowling averages had leggies at 2 (Mushtaq with Pak), 6 (Warne with Aus), 122 (Salisbury, Surrey), 124 (Shahid Afridi with Leics/MCC) and 141 (Schofield, Lancs). There were 146 in the list.

And MacGill got absolutely mullered this week by Surrey at Whitgift School.

I never said that Flat Spin is crap but i think the Proper bowler is one who flights the ball up, As for Kumble he plays to his Limits he tried to flight up and bowled full tosses and long hops and therefore turned to flat and got better results....

2001 wisden figures show that leg spin is Not wanted in this country that also said by Richie Benaud was was the best before warne came along

And Macgill got hammered SO WHAT he maybe had a few dropped catch or some which could have been catch and there where only 5 feet away from the fielder......... so i dont read much into it

 

[chris.hinton]

well i'm also a leg-spinner. an Australian leg-spinner... and i have had a fair bit of coaching. in Australia we mainly try to teach a few things:

Give the ball flight..... this means above teh batsmen's eyeline. it means they have to judge where the ball bounces(leads onto my next point) and judge the spin. all of this when u have to look up which somewhat distorts ur perception of the 2 facotrs.

Always rip the ball as hard as you can. this will mean alot more spin and also you can get the ball to drift in the air. it's like when teh commenatators r saying warnie is getting alot of drift. when this happens you know he is almost unplayable. because as stated before they have to judge the 2 factors as well as the spin in the air (drift).

On the subject of flat or flighted. the coaches over here always choose flighted. sure u'll keep the runs down bowling flat spin. but just how much does ur ball actually turn? the difference is by flighting it u increase ur chance of wickets. but at the cost of more runs. chirs is somewhat right in saying u rn't truly a leggie. i mean u obviously aint spinning it too much if ur bowling flat. i'm not criticising u at all tho rich. as it's up to u. but i am just saying this is what we teach in aus. and it seems to have worked with warnie and macgill. u can see that neitehr of them bowl flat. if u really practice hard u will get good so u are pitching it perfectly in the spot where the batsmen don't know whetehr to come forward or stay back. that with alot of flight and spin and u are almost unplayable. so it is possible to keep down the runs and flight it. if i am having a good day with my accuracy i can normally pick up 3+/20-30 off 10. as it's almost unplayable. so wat jenner says is correct. it ain tthe only way... but it is certainly a very succesfull way.

Thank you mate

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I never said that Flat Spin is crap but i think the Proper bowler is one who flights the ball up

So Kumble is not a PROPER BOWLER?

 

[gibbsnsmith]

look chris, youre really not good at this...

however youre probably on the right side but you ve said some stupid things out of probably frustration

there is 1 PROPER way to bowl spin, whether it be flighted or flat as long as its succesful, then its proper.

Moving on, flighted spin if perfected and its very hard can possibly be more successful that flatter spin which is not exactly easy to perfect as well.

 

[marc71178]

p.s. that maybe cos of my selfadmittedly good batting

I think it must be your modesty that gets you there myself.

 

[marc71178]

How "Spin is in the air ,break is off the pitch" jenner says that and i have a video of him saying them words. I understand what you are saying Andre But jenner said that

And if Jenner said that the best spinners bowl completely in the nude, would you recommend we all do that?

Just because he said that, doesn't mean it is true.

 

[marc71178]

So Kumble is not a PROPER BOWLER?

Of course he isn't - I mean what does 349 Test Wickets and 308 One Day International wickets mean?

 

[Langeveldt]

Im not sure what you mean by "proper bowler"

Kumble is unashamedly flat , but he has had loads of success, therefore I would say he was a proper bowler...

I find that I get more turn just bowling flat with a big rip and strong action on the ball, it can be done... And too much turn is often a bad thing, when the ball goes way past the outside edge all the time, and your line suffers because of it...

 

[chris.hinton]

Kumble is class the best flat bowler ever

 

[Mr. P]

nah, i'd probably leave that to lillee or hadlee or soemone like that.

 

[luckyeddie]

Kumble is class the best flat bowler ever

Tell you what, Chris - you never saw Derek Underwood.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Kumble is class the best flat bowler ever

But not a proper bowler?

How about an admission that both flat and flighted spin have their own merits and different types suit different bowlers?

 

[Craig]

Kumble IMO has been effective bowling flat on uneven wickets and getting a lot of bounce and having a good flipper as well.

 

[Cloete]

But not a proper bowler?

How about an admission that both flat and flighted spin have their own merits and different types suit different bowlers?

that's exactly right neil.... kumble never has much success bowling in australia and south africa.or even india for that matter(well he does but not to the extent of some of the other bowlers). Yet warney, macgill and the like have alot of success. because teh conditions r suited. u bowl flat spin over here and u'll get slaughtered. however flatter bowles do better in england. but truth be known a quality flight bowler can also do well in england as warne has proved... where as kumble has got most of his wickets on the slwoer wickets which is why his average is high. as each time he comes to aus and the like he gets slaughtered. but wat chris is saying in a very round about and argumentative way is that kumble and the likes r somewhat not truly spinners.... sure they're proper bowlers but not "wholey" spinners. as u will find kumble doesn't get much turn at all on pitches that don't favour spinners. which means he aint "truley" a spinner.

p.s i felt like saying "and the like" instead of saying etc. :P

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

but wat chris is saying in a very round about and argumentative way is that kumble and the likes r somewhat not truly spinners.... sure they're proper bowlers but not "wholey" spinners. as u will find kumble doesn't get much turn at all on pitches that don't favour spinners. which means he aint "truley" a spinner.

You are still "truly" a spinner, but there are select few spinners who are of the quality that they can turn it on any surface.

 

[chris.hinton]

Tell you what, Chris - you never saw Derek Underwood.

you are right forgot about him but he was medium really?