How good was W.G. Grace?

[Shaggy Alfresco]

Could anyone tell me?

 

[Goughy]

Very.

oh you want more..

Before Test matches were played there was a period where cricket was revolutionised. This revolution was down to one man W.G. Grace.

There was noone comparable in terms of profile and dominance before or since and despite being an amateur he was very influential in the bringing about the hardened professional mentality towards the sport.

Before Grace. cricket could be classed as a rural English pursuit and after Grace it was an international sport played by in many different environments.

Grace cannot be analysed using averages as they meant different things then. What must be done is compare his performances season in and season out against his contemporaries. This shows how great he was.

It is no exaggeration to say that without Grace cricket would not exist as we know it today.

We are 'standing on the shoulders of giants" with Grace being the tallest giant
.
The above phrase is attributed to Bernard by John of Salisbury , who writes in 1159 in his Metalogicon:

"Bernard of Chartres used to say that we are like dwarfs on the shoulders of giants, so that we can see more than they, and things at a greater distance, not by virtue of any sharpness on sight on our part, or any physical distinction, but because we are carried high and raised up by their giant size."

Players now may be better than Grace was in his day but they have only been able to progress to this stage because of the massive contribution and developments Grace made.

Anyway, this is off the top of my head. I'll have a read an come up with some examples of how good he was.

 

[FRAZ]

Once he was batting and the ball popped up in the air and Sir grace ran for the run and as the ball was about to fall into the hands of the fielder near by , he screamed "Missed it" . And the catch was dropped (I heard this thing from some one) .
He was a true gentleman and he did put some colour into the game . You see he played the game with passion .He made the game famous and he moulded the game like his own style . He was truely Shoaib Akhtar of his times. Great man I salute him.

 

[Sanz]

He was truely Shoaib Akhtar of his times.

Did he also hang out with Bollywood actresses ?

 

[Xuhaib]

Once he was batting and the ball popped up in the air and Sir grace ran for the run and as the ball was about to fall into the hands of the fielder near by , he screamed "Missed it" . And the catch was dropped (I heard this thing from some one) .
He was a true gentleman and he did put some colour into the game . You see he played the game with passion .He made the game famous and he moulded the game like his own style . He was truely Shoaib Akhtar of his times. Great man I salute him.

Did he keep Sonali's picture in his wallet

 

[Jono]

Is the story regarding him declaring for his team when he was on a certain number of runs, simply because that was the only score he had never ended his innings on between 0-100?

Absolute LOL if that's true.

 

[UncleTheOne]

Loads of great stories about Grace, whether myth of fact. Like nipping off to Crystal Palace during a game to win a 100 yards sprint at an athletics meet. Another great one is he apparently kidnapped a member of the Aussie touring party and refused to let him go until he agreed to play for Gloucs that summer.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Loads of great stories about Grace, whether myth of fact. Like nipping off to Crystal Palace during a game to win a 100 yards sprint at an athletics meet. Another great one is he apparently kidnapped a member of the Aussie touring party and refused to let him go until he agreed to play for Gloucs that summer.

That sounds familiar. Billy Midwinter, was it?

 

[archie mac]

That sounds familiar. Billy Midwinter, was it?

Yes, thats him, and yes he did declare on a score so he had made every score between 1 and 100 or was it 1 and 200?

Their was a public outcry here in Aust. when John Woodcock named Grace the best cricketer in history and had Bradman No. 2. But I thought it fair enough

The top ten for Woodcock (1998)

Grace
Bradman
Sobers
Mynn
Hobbs
SF Barnes
Hammond
Viv Richards
Botham
Compton

 

[stumpski]

Hmmm ... seven Englishmen in that list. I think I'd have had Trumper instead of Mynn myself. All great players though.

Grace's stats speak for themselves - first to a hundred 100s, first to make a 300, first to score 1000 in May, first to make a Test 100 in England ... and he played on some atrocious wickets (by later standards). Far and away the greatest player of the pre-1914 era.

 

[Slats4ever]

he had a top beard

 

[benchmark00]

I had a chuckle over the story where the ball popped up into Grace's pad, so with it lodged between his leg and the pad he ran over the boundary and claimed the boundary.

I think he was more revolutionary than anything else. Professionalisation of cricket can truly be traced back to the doctor.

 

[a massive zebra]

A cricketer is inevitably a product of his times, and obviously if we were able to send a time machine back to fetch W.G. and put him into a Test match today, he would undoubtedly struggle. But a cricketer of Grace's calibre born into modern times would probably still become the greatest cricketer in the world, if given the opportunities. The demands of the game, the skills required, and the equipment, have not changed very much.

His total dominance over all contemporaries between 1868 and 1880 really does beggar belief and is clearly shown by the following.

Most runs in the 1871 season.

Most runs in the 1873 season.

Most runs in the 1876 season.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Yes, thats him, and yes he did declare on a score so he had made every score between 1 and 100 or was it 1 and 200?

Probably 1 and 100. I'm guessing it was this game.

He never made 105 according to CricketArchive.

 

[Oli Norwell]

Certainly a great cricketer. But I've read stories of him being given out and not walking, being very un-sportsman like and arrogant believing that people were only there to watch him, and other incidents that suggest his large amount of runs were as much down to his status than his actual ability. (I mean the guy was larger than Inzaman!)

Add to that the fact cricket wasn't anywhere near as professional back then. I'd go as far as to say some bowlers were told not to bowl him out to ensure the match wasn't abandoned.

For me the likes of Bradman are a league above.

 

[Goughy]

Certainly a great cricketer. But I've read stories of him being given out and not walking, being very un-sportsman like and arrogant believing that people were only there to watch him, and other incidents that suggest his large amount of runs were as much down to his status than his actual ability. (I mean the guy was larger than Inzaman!)

Add to that the fact cricket wasn't anywhere near as professional back then. I'd go as far as to say some bowlers were told not to bowl him out to ensure the match wasn't abandoned.

For me the likes of Bradman are a league above.

They were. He made cricket with his popularity. People came to watch Grace.

Also cricket was very professional in his day and he had numerous run-ins with bowlers. Certain Pro fast bowlers worked hard on doing as much damage to the body and reputation of the good Doctor as they could.

I think you are being very naive and disrespectful to his ability to say his performances were down to his reputation rather than talent.

I suggest you read a couple of good books on the topic.

 

[andyc]

Certainly a great cricketer. But I've read stories of him being given out and not walking, being very un-sportsman like and arrogant believing that people were only there to watch him, and other incidents that suggest his large amount of runs were as much down to his status than his actual ability. (I mean the guy was larger than Inzaman!)

Add to that the fact cricket wasn't anywhere near as professional back then. I'd go as far as to say some bowlers were told not to bowl him out to ensure the match wasn't abandoned.

For me the likes of Bradman are a league above.

Not sure about questioning his ability, but I do agree that he seems to have been a bit up himself, and for that reason I've never really liked him that much. Some great stories, though.

 

[Oli Norwell]

Yeah I admit I haven't read a lot on Grace, but based on stats alone his performances in tests isn't spectacular.

22 games, 2 hundreds, average of 32. I guess those figures don't mean much in today's world though.

He did play a lot of games, and scored 54,000+ FC runs in 800+ games. But compare that to Graeme Hick, 39,000+ FC runs in 496 games, averaging over 50.

CricInfo mention that he was paid £1,500 (£100,000 +) in todays money for a tour of Australia in 1873/74, so in his day I agree he must have been a Tendulkar like god.

 

[Steulen]

Not sure about questioning his ability, but I do agree that he seems to have been a bit up himself, and for that reason I've never really liked him that much. Some great stories, though.

Agreed. The not walking, the whole pro-am business, some examples of blatant cheating...you have to look at it within those times of course, but in today's terms he'd be a Kevin Pietersen / any footballer type. You can admire him for his sporting exploits but it's hard to like him because he's too snotty for his own good.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Yeah I admit I haven't read a lot on Grace, but based on stats alone his performances in tests isn't spectacular.

22 games, 2 hundreds, average of 32. I guess those figures don't mean much in today's world though.

He did play a lot of games, and scored 54,000+ FC runs in 800+ games. But compare that to Graeme Hick, 39,000+ FC runs in 496 games, averaging over 50.

CricInfo mention that he was paid £1,500 (£100,000 +) in todays money for a tour of Australia in 1873/74, so in his day I agree he must have been a Tendulkar like god.

Neither of those stats are particularly relevant. His test career began when he was well past his best, and his FC stats were dragged down by the length of his career. The true class of Grace shows through when you look at his FC record in the years leading up to test cricket, where he would routinely be the best batsman in England by an absolute mile. Check our the links posted above by AMZ, where he would average 60-80 in seasons where the next best batsman averaged mid 20s, and score 8-10 centuries when nobody else managed more than 1.

Simply put, however good Grace was, there's no question at all that aside from Bradman, no other cricketer has ever been so far ahead of the pack.