Sir Vivian Richards - master or myth?

[social]

What good is genius if you dont make full use of it ? He might have been potentially the second best ever, but he can only be evaluated based on what he actually achieved in the end.

Massive contribution to possibly the greatest ever team.

Knighted for services to cricket.

Generally acknowledged as a master.

I think he sleeps pretty well at night!

 

[luckyeddie]

Boredom is the genius's equivalent of the lessers batsmans loss of concentration. Both are cricketing sins, and not excuses to big up a player. It can only be concluded that Viv was only as good as his record hints at him being.

I can only conclude that you never saw him bat.

Viv took it upon himself to humiliate bowlers for fun - a word that accurately describes his approach to cricket. Sure, he could have just grafted away and ended up with an average of over 60, but where would the fun have been in that? Cricket would have been much the worse if Viv had taken the 'professional' approach.

 

[Jono]

One image I always think about with Viv, is him chewing his gum, no helmet on, smashing the fast bowlers for 6 as casually as one could think. It looked like he didn't even try, but the ball would fly over the boundary.

 

[Beleg]

hmm, eddie here's a question your way,

Which bowler(s) do you think he was never able to truly dominate? And which bowler(s) in turn dominated him to some extent?

I ask this because I have often heard people talk about Imran often getting the best of Viv and I want to get a largely () neutral prespective on it.

 

[social]

Listened to an intersting interview on ABC radio last week during the first test between Aus and WI.

Having witnessed 2 abslotely sublime 100s during the gane from Ricky Ponting, Michael Holding was asked to compare him with others.

Mikey, without hesitation (and to the agreement of all), nominated Viv as the greatest he'd seen for the following reason.

He just didnt punish you on the scoreboard, he scarred you mentally.

Having watched him swagger out to bat and slaughter the best of his time during WSC, it was easy to see what he meant.

 

[andyc]

One image I always think about with Viv, is him chewing his gum, no helmet on, smashing the fast bowlers for 6 as casually as one could think. It looked like he didn't even try, but the ball would fly over the boundary.

True that. In Shanghai when he was up there, the first ball he faced was amazing. It was off one of the club's oldest members and was pretty much dibbly-dobbly stuff, and he played it like a forward defence, with no follow through that I could see but it flew over the boundary for six.

 

[social]

hmm, eddie here's a question your way,

Which bowler(s) do you think he was never able to truly dominate? And which bowler(s) in turn dominated him to some extent?

I ask this because I have often heard people talk about Imran often getting the best of Viv and I want to get a largely () neutral prespective on it.

If you compare their careers, they didnt overlap at their peak.

Imran, before modifications to his action produced massive swinging deliveries each way at over 90 mph, was "fruit for the sideboard" to Richards as he relied on pace and bounce alone. That was never going to cut it with Viv.

Viv regarded Lillee as the best bowler and reserved his "special" performance for Aus at his peak.

Others, such as Hadlee, had more success against him but, interestingly, Viv didnt rate him that highly.

 

[Beleg]

If you compare their careers, they didnt overlap at their peak.

Hmm. Pakistan played WI quite a few times during the 80's. I know that most people consider Imran's peak to be around 1982-1987/88. I'd imagine that Richards would be at the height of his powers at the same time...

 

[social]

Hmm. Pakistan played WI quite a few times during the 80's. I know that most people consider Imran's peak to be around 1982-1987/88. I'd imagine that Richards would be at the height of his powers at the same time...

Pakistan played WI 3 times during the 80s and Richards series averages were 73, 35 and 70.

However, the series most refer to as being the major Richards- Imran confrontation occurred in 76/77 in WI.

This was really Imran's breakthrough series and he took, from memory, 30 @ 35 but took a heavy toll on the WI physically.

Richards, coming off an 800 run series in Eng in '76, only averaged 35 in this series.

However, he decimated Imran in WSC. Imran was not alone there.

Overall - probably even.

 

[Top_Cat]

I remember reading Viv's autobiography and he rated Chandrasekhar as the best bowler he ever faced. He said it took him a while after his first tour of India to realise that Chandra wasn't representative of genuine Test bowling but was a little bit better. This caused a conflict because he had doubts about his ability to that point.

 

[luckyeddie]

hmm, eddie here's a question your way,

Which bowler(s) do you think he was never able to truly dominate? And which bowler(s) in turn dominated him to some extent?

I ask this because I have often heard people talk about Imran often getting the best of Viv and I want to get a largely () neutral prespective on it.

I reckon I'd call it a draw between Viv and Imran, which puts Imran miles ahead of most bowlers. Botham got Viv out an awful lot of times, especially when you take into account that generally West Indies only batted once a game against England in the late 70's and early 80's, but that might have been 'old pals act' or just familiarity.

 

[Jono]

I remember reading Viv's autobiography and he rated Chandrasekhar as the best bowler he ever faced. He said it took him a while after his first tour of India to realise that Chandra wasn't representative of genuine Test bowling but was a little bit better. This caused a conflict because he had doubts about his ability to that point.

Wow.

I really need to get a copy of that autobiography.

 

[Shounak]

One must also take into account attitude, in particular aggression and effect on team morale. Regardless of someone like Ganguly's statistics, he was an inspirational leader and an aggressive captain when India needed it the most..

I've read and heard a bit about Viv's aggression and apparently it was nothing but a good thing.. It's an intangible that statistics just can't measure..

I rate DK Lillee as the greatest fast bowler and it isn't just the averages talking..

Viv certainly seems (to me) like the kind of player you'd want captaining your team, even if his stats weren't as magnificent as they are..

 

[Sanz]

Whatever the reasons, history will remember Viv as a great batsmen, but only those that saw him will remember him as the Greatest.

I watched him bat and I dont think he was a better/greater batsman than Sunny Gavaskar. If I am picking my test team of 70s-80s I would pick Mr. Gavaskar over Viv. If there was a category 'Greatest batsman to watch' I am sure Viv would be at top among the cricketers I have seen but as a batsman no he wasn't better than Gavaskar. His 50ish avg is pretty much reflects what he was capable of.

 

[Fusion]

For those who've read Richards' autobiography, who does he rate as the best batsmen he ever saw? As I consider Viv to be the greatest batsman I ever saw, I would be interested to hear his opinion on the subject. I once heard (from second-hand and unreliable sources) that Richards had stated he would "want Javed Miandad batting for him if his life depended on it". I can't verify the authenticity of the statement. In any case, does anyone know whom Richards considered the best batsman?

 

[luckyeddie]

Would have been funnier if the thread title had been Mathter or Myth

 

[Slifer]

For those who've read Richards' autobiography, who does he rate as the best batsmen he ever saw? As I consider Viv to be the greatest batsman I ever saw, I would be interested to hear his opinion on the subject. I once heard (from second-hand and unreliable sources) that Richards had stated he would "want Javed Miandad batting for him if his life depended on it". I can't verify the authenticity of the statement. In any case, does anyone know whom Richards considered the best batsman?

I've heard the same as well. i think another thing that made Viv great, was i think he was a trend setter in the shorter version of the game. even in the days where there werent as many restrictions on bowlers Viv still gave the ball a fair tonking and he was quite successful at it as well.

 

[Xuhaib]

Javaid miandad was the 80's Steve Waugh. Not the most technically sound but a fighter till the last ball its not a surprise Viv rated him so highly.

 

[archie mac]

For those who've read Richards' autobiography, who does he rate as the best batsmen he ever saw? As I consider Viv to be the greatest batsman I ever saw, I would be interested to hear his opinion on the subject. I once heard (from second-hand and unreliable sources) that Richards had stated he would "want Javed Miandad batting for him if his life depended on it". I can't verify the authenticity of the statement. In any case, does anyone know whom Richards considered the best batsman?

I have a copy of Viv's bio. written with Bob Harris in 2000, I can't remember him picking the batsman he thought the best. I did look up Javed in the index, no mention of him being the best batsman, though he does write he was one of the most patriotic people he ever met.
And that there would have been no match fixing if Javed and Imran were in charge of the national team.

He does have some very harsh things to say about Australian fast bowlers, and really lets McDermott have it!

 

[Fusion]

He does have some very harsh things to say about Australian fast bowlers, and really lets McDermott have it!

What was his beef against them?