Glen McGrath vs Sydney Barnes

[kyear2]

It's hardly a tremendous sample size of evidence to judge on.

In particular with reference to still photos, you do realize how those were made in Barnes' days, right? They were hardly the action shots we are used to in the modern day, and hence are worth literally 0 as evidence.

Regardless, whether or not this fossil used to chuck or not doesn't determine whether I think McGrath was a better bowler, so I'll gladly cede it.

Barnes most probably didn't chuck (he most probably also didn't bowl proper off breaks and leg breaks at 75 mph either so hey).

Not with the chucking theory, but we still have no evidence he was anything above a medium trundler, if not quick spin.

 

[shortpitched713]

Respond when you've concrete evidence of him chucking, Thank You.

I actually don't care if he chucked or not.

The fact that you're defending even this hypothetical criticism that no one cares about so strongly based on basically no meaningful evidence, seems to betray a bit of bias though.

 

[shortpitched713]

Not with the chucking theory, but we still have no evidence he was anything above a medium trundler, if not quick spin.

Evidence in general is missing. Which makes sense, given we're talking about a player whose Test career was entirely before the time of antibiotics.

 

[subshakerz]

Evidence in general is missing. Which makes sense, given we're talking about a player whose Test career was entirely before the time of antibiotics.

You can see the bowling action of a geriatric Barnes at 1:20 in this video. We are supposed to take this seriously but if we do he doesn't even look like a paceman at all.

 

[Johan]

You're overreacting again. It's fine to assume his action was clean. We don't need to scrutinize photos and pretend it can be evidence either way.

oh I'm bing chilling, just telling you off.

 

[Johan]

Lots of good batsmen averaged much lower vs the WI. 47 also is in no way comparable to averaging 9 vs a poor team.

how about going on ramblings about SA being a poor team, you actually respond to the point I constantly make instead of convineant missing what's being stated?

 

[subshakerz]

how about going on ramblings about SA being a poor team, you actually respond to the point I constantly make instead of convineant missing what's being stated?

Welcome to debates with Kyear lol

 

[Johan]

Not with the chucking theory, but we still have no evidence he was anything above a medium trundler, if not quick spin.

Oh, Like Alec Bedser?

Dude, here's a fact for you, pace doesn't matter in this sport, never has, if It did then Bedser wouldn't be seen as a superior bowler to Statham and Varun Aaron would be a legend, Barnes was a bowler in the similar vein as Alec Bedser, Fazal Mahmood and Maurice Tate. These are basics.

 

[Johan]

The fact that you're defending even this hypothetical criticism that no one cares about so strongly based on basically no meaningful evidence, seems to betray a bit of bias though.

Again, I told you to come back when You've evidence of him chucking.

 

[Johan]

You can see the bowling action of a geriatric Barnes at 1:20 in this video. We are supposed to take this seriously but if we do he doesn't even look like a paceman at all.

how about you mention that he is 80 years old in this footage? 1:00

I wonder why he's always called a medium pacer by those who saw him...

 

[subshakerz]

how about you mention that he is 80 years old in this footage? 1:00

I wonder why he's always called a medium pacer by those who saw him...

That was my point. You are using footage of him as an 80 year old to show he doesn't chuck but then he looks like a spinner in the footage itself. It's just unreliable data.

 

[Johan]

That was my point. You are using footage of him as an 80 year old to show he doesn't chuck but then he looks like a spinner in the footage itself. It's just unreliable data.

If he isn't chucking at 80 when unable to bowl even medium pace, why would he randomly chuck in his 30s and how would that go uncalled by the people who saw him bowl literally thousands of overs?

 

[subshakerz]

If he isn't chucking at 80 when unable to bowl even medium pace, why would he randomly chuck in his 30s and how would that go uncalled by the people who saw him bowl literally thousands of overs?

You are assuming that is his same action at 80 and not just him lobbing a few balls for fun. What if his famous legcutter had a jerk in it? Just admit this isn't solid evidence.

 

[sayon basak]

You are assuming that is his same action at 80 and not just him lobbing a few balls for fun. What if his famous legcutter had a jerk in it? Just admit this isn't solid evidence.

The fact that he wasn't ever called for chucking and some random dude came up with that allegation some 100 years later is a good enough evidence for me.

 

[subshakerz]

The fact that he wasn't ever called for chucking and some random dude came up with that allegation some 100 years later is a good enough evidence for me.

Dude follow the argument nobody is calling him a chucker. Just saying looking at stills and an 80 year old bowling action isn't evidence to the contrary.

 

[Johan]

You are assuming that is his same action at 80 and not just him lobbing a few balls for fun. What if his famous legcutter had a jerk in it? Just admit this isn't solid evidence.

there would be resemblance to his old action, he can't run much anymore and obviously doesn't have much arm strength but he has no reasons to.change his arm movement. Plus, the greatest bowler of his era would probably be called out for throwing, in an era of the game where throwing was the biggest controversy.

 

[subshakerz]

there would be resemblance to his old action, he can't run much anymore and obviously doesn't have much arm strength but he has no reasons to.change his arm movement. Plus, the greatest bowler of his era would probably be called out for throwing, in an era of the game where throwing was the biggest controversy.

Lol pls stop referring to him bowling at that age. If he was going to jerk it it would require more energy.

Sure we can concede him not being called for chucking is a fair point.

 

[Johan]

Lol pls stop referring to him bowling at that age. If he was going to jerk it it would require more energy.

Sure we can concede him not being called for chucking is a fair point.

Nice.

 

[subshakerz]

Nice.

Just to clarify my original chucking comment wasnt really that serious bro.

 

[Coronis]

You are assuming that is his same action at 80 and not just him lobbing a few balls for fun. What if his famous legcutter had a jerk in it? Just admit this isn't solid evidence.

No maybe not.

But what is the evidence of him chucking?

Burden of proof is on the accuser.

Unless you have any proof, he ain’t no chucker