Kapil Dev vs Courtney Walsh

[subshakerz]

I didn't, I only said I feel like the 82-83 series is such an outlier compared to the rest of his career, is so absurd on paper and is so shady in nature that I find it hard to take it very seriously when severe tampering is very likely.

What's funny is that by 1989 both India and Pakistan, including Kapil were tampering but they couldn't affect a result.

 

[Migara]

Can you list the many better players of spin from Asia than Lara. Also, list the "dozen" Indians and Pakistanis better vs spin than Viv.

And stop the bs about Qadir being good or bad. Viv took him and Qasim apart in 1980 in Pakistan. And Qadir did just fine in the 2 tests he played. Qasim was outstanding.

Sidhu, Azhar, Tendulkar, Sehwag, Jayawardane all are better players of spin than Lara.

Salim Malik, Javed Miandad, Mushtaq Mohammed all are better players of spin. Most of the above lest played in the time of Viv, with addition of Gavaskar.

And Kapil Dev was one of those rare animals to bash Murali. Never came against Warne if I recall correctly.

 

[Johan]

Sidhu, Azhar, Tendulkar, Sehwag, Jayawardane all are better players of spin than Lara.

Sachin doesn't play spin better than Lara at all

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Sachin doesn't play spin better than Lara at all

Yeah i think I'll pass on responding to someone who thinks Dev is a better player of spin than the entire 80s WI lineup. That's a waste of my brain cells. The other stuff about players being better than Lara is just as bad.

Here's how you know Mig is fos. He's stated that in the past that Murali pre doosra in the 90s is nothing compared to Murali with his doosra. But all of a sudden Dev is a god vs spin for playing him and averaging in the 40s. Fun fact Dev also played a debuting Warne in 91/92.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

True, Dev better than Viv at a major facet of batsmenship adds pivotal comedic value to the site.

strike Rates especially in ODIs?

 

[BazBall21]

The notion that Kapil is a better player of spin than Viv and Lloyd is ridiculous.

 

[capt_Luffy]

strike Rates especially in ODIs?

You mean a 5 point higher SR batting at 7 instead of 3???????

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

You mean a 5 point higher SR batting at 7 instead of 3???????

Yes.. Difference was bigger in 80s.

 

[sayon basak]

You mean a 5 point higher SR batting at 7 instead of 3???????

Don't argue, he's just adding more comedic value.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

He consistently maintained a good level, but if he was a considerably better bowler than his raw numbers, he would have had a top drawer sustained peak or better overall overseas numbers. Gillespie was definitely a higher quality bowler than Kapil imo.

Gillespie played 10-11 years of international cricket.
71 matches, 137 innings,
259 wickets at 26.14 , ER 2.85
54.96 SR, 0 x 10 wickets, 8 x 5 wickets

1979-89
Kapil Dev
97 tests, 163 innings
346 wickets at 28.13, ER 2.85
59 SR, 2 x10 wickets, 21 x 5 wickets


Similar SR and ER
Kapil far better WPI, 5fers and 10fers

Gillespie avg better by 2 points. For that, he needed better conditions, better bowling support , better fielding support and score board pressure.
Kapil is arguably better than Gillespie and no way they are in different leagues as bowlers.

 

[sayon basak]

Gillespie played 10-11 years of international cricket.
71 matches, 137 innings,
259 wickets at 26.14 , ER 2.85
54.96 SR, 0 x 10 wickets, 8 x 5 wickets

1979-89
Kapil Dev
97 tests, 163 innings
346 wickets at 28.13, ER 2.85
59 SR, 2 x10 wickets, 21 x 5 wickets


Similar SR and ER
Kapil far better WPI, 5fers and 10fers

Gillespie avg better by 2 points. For that, he needed better conditions, better bowling support , better fielding support and score board pressure.
Kapil is arguably better than Gillespie and no way they are in different leagues as bowlers.

This is actually a good point.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Gillespie took 259 wickets @ 26.13

Kapil has a period where he took 234 wickets @ 26.2

 

[BazBall21]

Gillespie played 10-11 years of international cricket.
71 matches, 137 innings,
259 wickets at 26.14 , ER 2.85
54.96 SR, 0 x 10 wickets, 8 x 5 wickets

1979-89
Kapil Dev
97 tests, 163 innings
346 wickets at 28.13, ER 2.85
59 SR, 2 x10 wickets, 21 x 5 wickets


Similar SR and ER
Kapil far better WPI, 5fers and 10fers

Gillespie avg better by 2 points. For that, he needed better conditions, better bowling support , better fielding support and score board pressure.
Kapil is arguably better than Gillespie and no way they are in different leagues as bowlers.

Never said they are in different leagues. I said Gillespie was the better bowler in my opinion. Kapil was the better player.

 

[Swamp Witch Hattie]

I didn't, I only said I feel like the 82-83 series is such an outlier compared to the rest of his career, is so absurd on paper and is so shady in nature that I find it hard to take it very seriously when severe tampering is very likely.

There's a company out there called Imran Crown Cork (the initials are ICC!):



It was clearly named after Imran Khan, presumably with his permission, and was founded in 1981:



Here are a couple of their products:





The next year, 1982/83, Imran took his 40 wickets against India at 13.95. Since Imran had his name on them, maybe he felt the need to prove just how good those products were!

 

[Johan]

There's a company out there called Imran Crown Cork (the initials are ICC!):

View attachment 45854

It was clearly named after Imran Khan, presumably with his permission, and was founded in 1981:

View attachment 45855

Here are a couple of their products:

View attachment 45856

View attachment 45857

The next year, 1982/83, Imran took his 40 wickets against India at 13.95. Since Imran had his name on them, maybe he felt the need to prove just how good those products were!

absolutely hilarious

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Don't argue, he's just adding more comedic value.

In 80s, Viv 92 SR, Kapil 102 SR.

 

[DrWolverine]

I won’t rate him ahead of Viv Richards but yes Kapil Dev was easily the best all rounder in 1980s in ODIs

Batting : 2869 runs @ 26 and SR of 101.91
13 batsmen scored more runs than him
Only one had a SR higher than 75(Viv with 91)

Bowling : 168 wickets @ 26 and ER of 3.6
Highest wicket taker in that decade

Only 5 bowlers had a better economy rate than him - Malcolm Marshall, Michael Holding, Joel Garner, Ewen Chatfield and Richard Hadlee.

 

[subshakerz]

I won’t rate him ahead of Viv Richards but yes Kapil Dev was easily the best all rounder in 1980s in ODIs

Batting : 2869 runs @ 26 and SR of 101.91
13 batsmen scored more runs than him
Only one had a SR higher than 75(Viv with 91)

Bowling : 168 wickets @ 26 and ER of 3.6
Highest wicket taker in that decade

Only 5 bowlers had a better economy rate than him - Malcolm Marshall, Michael Holding, Joel Garner, Ewen Chatfield and Richard Hadlee.

Imran was better sorry.

All-round records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

 

[Johan]

Imran was better sorry.

in ODI? how?

 

[subshakerz]

in ODI? how?

In the 80s, check the stats above.

He was a genuine worldclass bowler unlike Kapil

And he could bat up the order and help build the innings, which in the 80s context was more important than fast cameos towards the end of the innings (which Imran could do too if needed).

Performed well in both WCs too.