Barry Richards vs Greenidge

[subshakerz]

Of course there is no definitive answer to this and there was variation by country. But perception in England seemed clear at the time.

Sobers' decline began after his first full season of county cricket in 1968. The increased workload led to staleness, and fallout from his Trinidad declaration earlier that year dampened his enthusiasm for Test cricket. There were still outstanding innings to come of course. His main rival was Graeme Pollock. The 1968-69 England tour to South Africa was cancelled but Pollock was in great form domestically and perceived by many as the world's best batsman. The odd comment came out of Australia that a reluctance to hook was a weakness and that Ian Chappell was a better player. Chappell was subsequently targeted by the South Africans and suffered a lean series in 1970.

During the second Test of that series in Durban, Barry Richards would have scored the only hundred before lunch against Australia but for timewasting by skipper Lawry. Chappell recalls a conversation in the slips along the lines that they were now watching the world's best batsman. Unfortunately for the Australians, Pollock overheard, took a fresh guard, and stayed until he had made 274. In the last Test Richards scored 81 and 126 with the same nonchalant ease. A year later he was offered a dollar a run by South Australia and averaged over a hundred, with 325 in a day against a young Lillee, McKenzie and Tony Lock, three weeks after making an effortless 224 against the English tourists who were in doubt that he was the best.

That remained the view in England until 1975. An English Test tour to South Africa was scheduled for 1975-76 and Lord's declined to arrange other trips, hoping it might still go ahead. During the first half of the 1970s it was still thought that Richards might play international cricket again. Discussion centred around the identity of the second best batsman, with Boycott in the frame at first, followed briefly by Lawrence Rowe then Greg Chappell.

Pollock had remained in South Africa where he was still regarded as number one. In the Caribbean there was admiration for Gavaskar, but not at the expense of their own Rowe, Kallicharran and Lloyd. The last two comfortably outperformed Gavaskar in India, and Majid and Zaheer in Pakistan, in 1974-75, then shone at the first World Cup. The following year Barry Richards' crown passed to namesake Viv.

Thanks for this context as usual

 

[capt_Luffy]

Of course there is no definitive answer to this and there was variation by country. But perception in England seemed clear at the time.

Sobers' decline began after his first full season of county cricket in 1968. The increased workload led to staleness, and fallout from his Trinidad declaration earlier that year dampened his enthusiasm for Test cricket. There were still outstanding innings to come of course. His main rival was Graeme Pollock. The 1968-69 England tour to South Africa was cancelled but Pollock was in great form domestically and perceived by many as the world's best batsman. The odd comment came out of Australia that a reluctance to hook was a weakness and that Ian Chappell was a better player. Chappell was subsequently targeted by the South Africans and suffered a lean series in 1970.

During the second Test of that series in Durban, Barry Richards would have scored the only hundred before lunch against Australia but for timewasting by skipper Lawry. Chappell recalls a conversation in the slips along the lines that they were now watching the world's best batsman. Unfortunately for the Australians, Pollock overheard, took a fresh guard, and stayed until he had made 274. In the last Test Richards scored 81 and 126 with the same nonchalant ease. A year later he was offered a dollar a run by South Australia and averaged over a hundred, with 325 in a day against a young Lillee, McKenzie and Tony Lock, three weeks after making an effortless 224 against the English tourists who were in doubt that he was the best.

That remained the view in England until 1975. An English Test tour to South Africa was scheduled for 1975-76 and Lord's declined to arrange other trips, hoping it might still go ahead. During the first half of the 1970s it was still thought that Richards might play international cricket again. Discussion centred around the identity of the second best batsman, with Boycott in the frame at first, followed briefly by Lawrence Rowe then Greg Chappell.

Pollock had remained in South Africa where he was still regarded as number one. In the Caribbean there was admiration for Gavaskar, but not at the expense of their own Rowe, Kallicharran and Lloyd. The last two comfortably outperformed Gavaskar in India, and Majid and Zaheer in Pakistan, in 1974-75, then shone at the first World Cup. The following year Barry Richards' crown passed to namesake Viv.

Tbf Gavaskar only managed to play 2 games that series and scored an 84.

 

[Bolo.]

Of course there is no definitive answer to this and there was variation by country. But perception in England seemed clear at the time.

Sobers' decline began after his first full season of county cricket in 1968. The increased workload led to staleness, and fallout from his Trinidad declaration earlier that year dampened his enthusiasm for Test cricket. There were still outstanding innings to come of course. His main rival was Graeme Pollock. The 1968-69 England tour to South Africa was cancelled but Pollock was in great form domestically and perceived by many as the world's best batsman. The odd comment came out of Australia that a reluctance to hook was a weakness and that Ian Chappell was a better player. Chappell was subsequently targeted by the South Africans and suffered a lean series in 1970.

During the second Test of that series in Durban, Barry Richards would have scored the only hundred before lunch against Australia but for timewasting by skipper Lawry. Chappell recalls a conversation in the slips along the lines that they were now watching the world's best batsman. Unfortunately for the Australians, Pollock overheard, took a fresh guard, and stayed until he had made 274. In the last Test Richards scored 81 and 126 with the same nonchalant ease. A year later he was offered a dollar a run by South Australia and averaged over a hundred, with 325 in a day against a young Lillee, McKenzie and Tony Lock, three weeks after making an effortless 224 against the English tourists who were in doubt that he was the best.

That remained the view in England until 1975. An English Test tour to South Africa was scheduled for 1975-76 and Lord's declined to arrange other trips, hoping it might still go ahead. During the first half of the 1970s it was still thought that Richards might play international cricket again. Discussion centred around the identity of the second best batsman, with Boycott in the frame at first, followed briefly by Lawrence Rowe then Greg Chappell.

Pollock had remained in South Africa where he was still regarded as number one. In the Caribbean there was admiration for Gavaskar, but not at the expense of their own Rowe, Kallicharran and Lloyd. The last two comfortably outperformed Gavaskar in India, and Majid and Zaheer in Pakistan, in 1974-75, then shone at the first World Cup. The following year Barry Richards' crown passed to namesake Viv.

I was kinda hoping for a response from you specifically when I posted. Thanks.

Outside of the very obvious performing in CC, do you know why Barry was so highly rated in England in relation to Sobers and Pollock? I would have assumed their performances outside of county would carry a lot of weight.

Why do you personally rate Barry so highly of bats you have seen?

 

[akilana]

That would be you.

and you.

 

[Coronis]

I was kinda hoping for a response from you specifically when I posted. Thanks.

Outside of the very obvious performing in CC, do you know why Barry was so highly rated in England in relation to Sobers and Pollock? I would have assumed their performances outside of county would carry a lot of weight.

Why do you personally rate Barry so highly of bats you have seen?

iirc, county was still seen in England as pretty much peak outside of Ashes by the 70’s. I feel his aggressiveness and style had a lot to do with it too, compared to some batsmen who may have actually had better performances in county.

For example Boycott himself in those English seasons..

70 - 2051 @ 55.43 4 tons
71 - 2503 @ 100.12 13 tons
72 - 1230 @ 72.35 6 tons
73 - 1527 @ 63.62 5 tons
74 - 1783 @ 59.43 6 tons
75 - 1915 @ 73.65 6 tons

11009 @ 69.24 40 tons

vs Richards

70 - 1667 @ 53.77 3 tons
71 - 1938 @ 47.26 2 tons
72 - 1425 @ 44.53 4 tons
73 - 1452 @ 51.85 5 tons
74 - 1406 @ 61.13 4 tons
75 - 1621 @ 60.03 3 tons

9509 @ 55.28 21 tons

 

[peterhrt]

I was kinda hoping for a response from you specifically when I posted. Thanks.

Outside of the very obvious performing in CC, do you know why Barry was so highly rated in England in relation to Sobers and Pollock? I would have assumed their performances outside of county would carry a lot of weight.

Why do you personally rate Barry so highly of bats you have seen?

Pollock got a fantastic hundred on a Trent Bridge greentop in 1965, and another good one for the Rest of the World in 1970 when he wasn't always at his best. Then he disappeared from England, apart from a spot of club cricket with his brother. The odd English writer like Michael Melford (always a fan) saw him in South Africa when reporting mainly on rugby, but otherwise Pollock was off the radar.

Sobers was a big favourite in England. He was rated more highly as an all-rounder than purely as a batsman, although most people thought he was the world's best bat between 1966 and 1968. (Melford was an exception and went for Pollock during the 1966-67 SA v A series). Between 1960 and 1965 Sobers still had as many supporters as anyone for top batsman, facing competition mainly from Kanhai. After 1968 spectators of the county championship could see he had lost a bit of spark day-to-day and had to rouse himself to play one of his trademark great innings.

Simon Wilde on Barry Richards in English cricket: During the next five years, Richards played innings which dominated games to an almost farcical extent. He scored 189 out of a score of 249 for 6 against MCC at Lord's in 1974; a double century at Trent Bridge the same year came in a match in which only two other batsmen passed 30. When he scored 240 against Warwickshire at Coventry in 1973, the next-highest individual score was 56. In one-day matches he took on, and sometimes virtually beat, teams single-handed.

When on song Richards played innings beyond the scope of others and made it look easy. Club cricketers tried to copy his perfect technique and wondered where all the power came from. It was in the timing, allied to quick footwork. Richards scored faster than other openers of the time, essential for setting up wins in three-day matches. It was a reason Hampshire won only their second county championship title in 1973. The downside was that he wasn't always fully motivated and sometimes threw his wicket away. Wilde again: A few spinners tested him, but he was more likely to get into trouble in a bout of extravagance against an anonymous medium-pacer. Cowdrey said he was the best batsman of the 1970s, followed by Greg Chappell and Boycott.

 

[Bolo.]

iirc, county was still seen in England as pretty much peak outside of Ashes by the 70’s. I feel his aggressiveness and style had a lot to do with it too, compared to some batsmen who may have actually had better performances in county.

For example Boycott himself in those English seasons..

70 - 2051 @ 55.43 4 tons
71 - 2503 @ 100.12 13 tons
72 - 1230 @ 72.35 6 tons
73 - 1527 @ 63.62 5 tons
74 - 1783 @ 59.43 6 tons
75 - 1915 @ 73.65 6 tons

11009 @ 69.24 40 tons

vs Richards

70 - 1667 @ 53.77 3 tons
71 - 1938 @ 47.26 2 tons
72 - 1425 @ 44.53 4 tons
73 - 1452 @ 51.85 5 tons
74 - 1406 @ 61.13 4 tons
75 - 1621 @ 60.03 3 tons

9509 @ 55.28 21 tons

Speaking of of players like Boycott, neither of us have any respect for the stuff SR.

I am sure that you (we) are right about 'SR festishization' in general. Im not sure this applies to 3 day FC games. If your intention is to to win.the game, it may be closer to a double innings ODI than a 5 day game.

Its possible that Barry might be simultaeously better in FC and worse at a higher level.

I have no idea what Im talking about.

 

[Coronis]

Speaking of of players like Boycott, neither of us have any respect for the stuff SR.

I am sure that you (we) are right about 'SR festishization' in general. Im not sure this applies to 3 day FC games. If your intention is to to win.the game, it may be closer to a double innings ODI than a 5 day game.

Its possible that Barry might be simultaeously better in FC and worse at a higher level.

I have no idea what Im talking about.

Probably a factor too.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Wut?

The question is who is better between Richards and Greenidge.

To answer that you need to know, how would they perform in international level for at least 10 years and 50 tests.
Richards only played 4 tests.. So, how can you determine if he is better or not.

And,
If Greenidge is better, because he played, 100+ tests.. Similarly Warne too is a better batsman than Richards.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

The question is who is better between Richards and Greenidge.

To answer that you need to know, how would they perform in international level for at least 10 years and 50 tests.
Richards only played 4 tests.. So, how can you determine if he is better or not.

And,
If Greenidge is better, because he played, 100+ tests.. Similarly Warne too is a better batsman than Richards.

Tbf Crawley is rated higher than Richards here so Warne might be too

Zak Crawley vs Barry Richards

Could Crawley surpass Richards?

www.cricketweb.net

 

[Coronis]

At least Crawley doesn’t play against farmers

 

[kyear2]

You really do have the maturity of a 2 year old at times, lol, but do you my friend.

Guess that was the best argument you could come up with.

 

[kyear2]

Chappell also was going extremely strong from 72 and Gavaskar had a bonkers WI tour in 71 as well

Yes, that highly rated tour of '71.....

That literally no one rates. But you of course.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Yes, that highly rated tour of '71.....

That literally no one rates. But you of course.

"We couldn't get Gavaskar out at all, we couldn't get Gavaskar out at all" - A ****ing calypso based solely on that series.

 

[kyear2]

"We couldn't get Gavaskar out at all, we couldn't get Gavaskar out at all" - A ****ing calypso based solely on that series.

I am as usual unaware of the point of your post.

There was also a song for Ramadhin and Valentine.

As peterhrt said above and specified in previous posts there was support for him in the Caribbean, particularly in Trinidad and Guyana.
There were two primary reasons for same, I'll leave you to figure them out.

 

[Johan]

@peterhrt If you don't mind me asking, how was Boycott viewed in the 70s in comparison to Barry Richards and Sunil Gavaskar?

 

[Srinath P]

Who was the better batter in WSC? I remember both of them being top tier.

 

[sayon basak]

Who was the better batter in WSC? I remember both of them being top tier.

Barry played 8 innings in WSC, scored 554 runs @79.14
Greenidge played 23 innings in WSC, scored 754 runs @35.9

 

[Coronis]

You really do have the maturity of a 2 year old at times, lol, but do you my friend.

Guess that was the best argument you could come up with.

Sorry man, it seems like you do have a full copypasta waiting around for someone to fairly or unfairly criticise any of your favourite players, and they’re always multiple paragraphs. Gets tiring reading the same stuff over and over and over and over and over.

Besides when I was scrolling through that post it literally made me yawn. It would’ve just been wrong to not share my feelings on it.

I do spend a fair bit of time with my 3 and 1 year old nephew and niece so it probably averages out to 2.

 

[Srinath P]

Barry played 8 innings in WSC, scored 554 runs @79.14
Greenidge played 23 innings in WSC, scored 754 runs @35.9

Now we see the difference.

And Barry also made a 300 vs an incredible bowling attack (that too peak Lillee) so I guess he has a clear edge. Greenidge never did that well against Lillee in Australia.