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Malcolm Marshal vs Glenn McGrathbbb

Who is the greatest test bowler?

  • Malcolm Marshal

    Votes: 17 70.8%
  • Glenn McGrath

    Votes: 6 25.0%
  • Do istpa so sorry for so uspar at the on it DPP is it app P pak call GP grameenphone

    Votes: 1 4.2%

  • Total voters
    24

Johan

International Vice-Captain
Smith without WI averages 68.8 at his peak over 51 matches. I think Viv is very dependent on a single year and Smith just played and was tested more.
Sure, but that year is better than any Smith year, plus Smith's quality all also comes from two serieses, if he never haf those, I doubt people would consider him even an ATG, so it's not like it's Viv alone who relies on a small body of work.
 

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Smith averages 52 odd without West Indies iirc, and his averages are lower than Root against every team bar Ashes tests and the West Indies who are significantly weaker without dukes, so at the end of the day Smith's peak is also just good work away from home where Viv beats him and home track bullying on the flattest pitches possible which doesn't really move me, Smith also went missing against South Africa at his peak and in Sri Lanka at his very peak so it's not like some insane consistency. basically, Viv outdoes him in term of quality, Smith outdoes him in term of making runs against mid 2010s Windies/Pakistan/India at home on the flattest wickets possible, I don't really see where Smith's advantage lies honestly.

Viv was good at home as well, he has a series against peak Botham like the 2017 Ashes.
Viv was mnt just scoring runs but scoring runs at an awesome rate against top attacks.
 

capt_Luffy

International Coach
Sure, but that year is better than any Smith year, plus Smith's quality all also comes from two serieses, if he never haf those, I doubt people would consider him even an ATG, so it's not like it's Viv alone who relies on a small body of work.
I think that's really far fetched. Also it's like saying people won't consider Viv an ATG without 1976. Yes, 76 is better than year of Smith. Probably better than any year by anyone (with 1930 Don being the only competition). So he would win if the the question was who had the best year. It wasn't. Smith just scored way more in way too many different locations.
 

Johan

International Vice-Captain
I think that's really far fetched. Yes, 76 is better than year of Smith. Probably better than any year by anyone (with 1930 Don being the only competition). So he would win if the the question was who had the best year. It wasn't. Smith just scored way more in way too many different locations.
their averages are close enough in their peak times without a weak windies bashing, Smith's aggregate is better because you decide to ignore WSC, he still loses out on quality and thus loses out the whole thing of prime vs prime.
 

capt_Luffy

International Coach
their averages are close enough in their peak times without a weak windies bashing, Smith's aggregate is better because you decide to ignore WSC, he still loses out on quality and thus loses out the whole thing of prime vs prime.
Viv went missing for half of his prime. That pretty much decided it for me. And I don't decide to ignore WSC, I rate it as I would rate Gavaskar's 188 for MCC or any similar tour/domestic match against a strong opposition. But it's not Test.
 

Johan

International Vice-Captain
Viv went missing for half of his prime. That pretty much decided it for me. And I don't decide to ignore WSC, I rate it as I would rate Gavaskar's 188 for MCC or any similar tour/domestic match against a strong opposition. But it's not Test.
went missing for half his prime for reasons unrelated to his batsmenship, and still beats Smith's on quality. I rate it as much as Sobers's 254 against Lillee, while I rate county games a level below so fundamentally I will take WSC when rating Viv, same way you clearly took the 254 against Lillee into account when rating Sobers as #2 against true pace.
 

Johan

International Vice-Captain
It is silly to assume Steven Smith benefitted from playing at home or his peak stats are boosted by any other reasons

Between 2014-2017, Peak Steven Smith was miles ahead of his teammates whether it is overall, home or away records.

Against Ind, Pak, SL, SA, Eng and NZ

Away
View attachment 44947

Home
View attachment 44946

Overall

View attachment 44947
why does Smith average equal to or less than Root against every team they both have played against other than West Indies if his home pitches weren't favourable in his prime?
 

capt_Luffy

International Coach
went missing for half his prime for reasons unrelated to his batsmenship, and still beats Smith's on quality. I rate it as much as Sobers's 254 against Lillee, while I rate county games a level below so fundamentally I will take WSC when rating Viv, same way you clearly took the 254 against Lillee into account when rating Sobers as #2 against true pace.
I won't take it among Sobers' peak till 71 kind of sense really. Also, I have way more reservations for WSC, which Imo, is the equivalent to IPL where a single man owned all the franchises.
 

Johan

International Vice-Captain
I won't take it among Sobers' peak till 71 kind of sense really. Also, I have way more reservations for WSC, which Imo, is the equivalent to IPL where a single man owned all the franchises.
Don't know what your first line means, and the WSC matches where Viv scored was still WSC West Indies vs WSC Australia in the peak of their feud where both team tried to kill each other in 75 and 79, IPL is discussed when rating the greatness of T20 players anyway.
 

DrWolverine

International Debutant
Regarding Sobers 254

A poster recently said the boundary length was shortened for this match. Is it true?

I am not doubting his greatness but to hit peak Dennis Lillee for 6 sixes at Melbourne seems a little too good to be true.
 

capt_Luffy

International Coach
Don't know what your first line means, and the WSC matches where Viv scored was still WSC West Indies vs WSC Australia in the peak of their feud where both team tried to kill each other in 75 and 79, IPL is discussed when rating the greatness of T20 players anyway.
It's not my words, many journalists were wary of the efforts the players gave in WSC back then as all the franchises are under the common ownership; so players getting injured will be very inefficient.

Source Peterhrt
 

Johan

International Vice-Captain
It's not my words, many journalists were wary of the efforts the players gave in WSC back then as all the franchises are under the common ownership; so players getting injured will be very inefficient.
if the reasoning to ignore it is conspiracy theories then I'm probably not ignoring it personally, I would also question the amount of effort an aussie pacer puts in a match against West Indies 2 months before an Ashes series, doesn't mean I ignore the series
 

capt_Luffy

International Coach
Regarding Sobers 254

A poster recently said the boundary length was shortened for this match. Is it true?

I am not doubting his greatness but to hit peak Dennis Lillee for 6 sixes at Melbourne seems a little too good to be true.
Sobers was a freak. Not sure it was that match or not (or even if it's a legend), but Lillee bowled bouncers at him relentlessly on a day. Some Aussie hot shot said something about Sobers not being able to see the ball and he replied that if bouncers came tomorrow, they won't see the ball. Every bouncer went for a 6 the next day.
 

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