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Wasim Akram vs Dennis Lillee

Who was the greater bowler?

  • Wasim Akram

    Votes: 38 50.0%

  • Dennis Lillee

    Votes: 38 50.0%
  • Total voters
    76
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
I think the outcome here is fitting. Both very highly rated, if a touch over rated bowlers in the court of public opinion. But Lillee especially a little under rated here.

I would say Lillee as he's the one I do have ranked a touch higher and in the top 10. But Wasim is in my AT XI.

Really close and yeah, probably the ideal conclusion.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
kyear2 said:
I swear you don't read, or just really slow, and on top of it, have the gumption to call someone a liar.
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Imran wasn't a regular no.8, so calling him 'the greatest no.8' doesn't even make any sense.

And you just confirmed what I said about Hammond and Kallis in different words.

kyear2 said:
Hey, I'm aware of his average chart. Context matters.

When and vs who?
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I gave you context for when he batted in no.8.

Mostly early career but also a bunch of times in the middle of career when he had promoted a nightwatchmen or decided to play seven specialist bats.

And of course he was a worldclass bat at 6 and above.
 
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S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Van_Sri said:
This is one good way to judge the impact of a bowler.
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This comparison of Wasim vs Lillee really boils down to how much we can speculate Lillee would have done well in others places.

I think he would have followed the pattern in the rest of his career, a bit expensive but generally wickettaking.
 
V

Van_Sri

U19 Debutant
subshakerz said:
This comparison of Wasim vs Lillee really boils down to how much we can speculate Lillee would have done well in others places.

I think he would have followed the pattern in the rest of his career, a bit expensive but generally wickettaking.
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I am going to make the same statistics for Wasim today and will see who was better ? For now this is Lillee’ Score 45+42+42+38+27+31+33+36+24+25+12=355
 
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capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

International Coach
kyear2 said:
That is truly ridiculous. If the pitches aided his bowling, surely we should give him more credit as a batsman having your home pitches be the only one with life in the world.

And surely we aren't comparing lovely home pitches to home umpiring and bottle caps? Would imagine the latter to be more more useful.
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I give him credit for his home pitches while batting, despite averaging 33 vs Australia in them. That's why I rate him over Ponting, Dravid, Root, Waugh, Chappell and Sangakkara.

We definitely are!! It wasn't like Imran's Pakistan only had bad home umpires. It's way overblown really. WIndian umpires alone prevented Imran's Pak to win a Test series there, and Australian umpires had special love for Tendulkar and Lara as late as 99. And sure, Imran tampered with the ball, but he wasn't the only one, not even close to really.
 
bagapath

bagapath

International Captain
bagapath said:
[QUOTE="Pap Finn Keighl, post: 5394969, member: 35064"

He could have averaged less than 25 everywhere ( except SA) with proper fielding support.
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he averaged 4- wpm over his career. lillee took 5+. hard facts.
 
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subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
bagapath said:
[QUOTE="Pap Finn Keighl, post: 5394969, member: 35064"

He could have averaged less than 25 everywhere ( except SA) with proper fielding support.
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could have. would have. should have. who knows? but it didnt happen. he averaged 39 in SA. that is the reality.
[/QUOTE]
In two tests
 
bagapath

bagapath

International Captain
subshakerz said:
could have. would have. should have. who knows? but it didnt happen. he averaged 39 in SA. that is the reality.

In two tests
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Excusese... excuses... excuses...

Lillee played 1 test in SL and not even a full series in WI...

Either count them for both or not
 
M

MartinB

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
subshakerz said:
Lillee no doubt had those attributes but he wasn't perfect. I believe even Ian Chappell said he struggled to dismiss the tail and lacked a good yorker, Akram however had all the tools though I would say Lillee had more determination.


I don't think Akram played in a 5 man attack regularly at all. It was usually four bowlers plus a part timer like all teams. Which five bowlers are you talking about? And it's not like Lillee had poor bowling support.
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To me a 4 man attack is one where the 5th bowler is never used.

He certainly played in 5 man attacks (particularly when Imran was about which was the first 1/4 of his career). Here is a couple I found on a quick check.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...an-vs-australia-3rd-test-63812/full-scorecard

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...an-vs-australia-3rd-test-63812/full-scorecard

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...lia-vs-pakistan-3rd-test-63522/full-scorecard
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
MartinB said:
To me a 4 man attack is one where the 5th bowler is never used.

He certainly played in 5 man attacks (particularly when Imran was about which was the first 1/4 of his career). Here is a couple I found on a quick check.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...an-vs-australia-3rd-test-63812/full-scorecard

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...an-vs-australia-3rd-test-63812/full-scorecard

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...lia-vs-pakistan-3rd-test-63522/full-scorecard
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I mean by that definition did Lillee have 5th man attacks too?
 
Q

Qlder

International Regular
Lillee is heavily criticized for not performing in Sri Lanka where he has 3 wkts @ 35.66, so I thought I'd add some context.

The reality is that he played only one test in Sri Lanka, so hardly an adequate sample. In that Test Australia batted first and made 4/514 (dec). You could assume this a pretty flat pitch when adding that Aussie mediocre spinners Yardley and Hogan took 14 of Sri Lanka's 18 wkts to bowlers (2 run outs).

Despite that, Lillee had Sri Lanka 2/5 in their 1st innings. Sri Lanka then followed on and Lillee broke through again with the new ball having Sri Lanka 1/17. To me Lillee did his job with the new ball taking out the batting order's top 3, before relying on the spinners to finish the job.

Australia won that game by an Innings and 38 runs and Sri Lanka pacers took a combined 3 wkts @ 97.67 in that game, so I'm not sure how anyone can say Lillee failed in Sri Lanka?
 
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