**Official** 5th Test at Sydney, 3-7 Jan 2025

[King Kane]

Nasty knock to the head for Pant from Starc, he survived a car crash though so he is tough,

 

[OverratedSanity]

Part of the problem is that he genuinely can't score on the offside square of the wicket if he doesn't play that shot. So bowlers can just hide it out there all day - as they did today - and wait for him to make a mistake unless it's a proper road and he can just whack through the line with glee.

Yeah I've been saying it for years even when he was at his peak. Literally the only shot he plays against the pacers through the offside is the front foot cover drive.

He barely ever plays the cut shot, doesn't play the back foot punches through the covers, doesn't even try to run the ball down to third man with little dabs like other players do. Think back to even his peak years, he never really was a prominent exponent of these shots, all of which are kinda crucial if you want to succeed at test level against most deliveries which are bowled in the off stump corridor. For a supposed ATG he is incredibly limited as a strokeplayer.

 

[Qlder]

He's more of a McDermott quality bowler than a McGrath, but that's still very good.

Fun stat: Craig McDermott took 291 wkts in 124 innings. Pat Cummins is currently bowling in his 124th innings and has 289 wkts, so needs 2 wkts to equal

 

[vicleggie]

He also concedes runs and releases pressure when others don't. People talk about him like he's a 22-23 average bowler and he isn't.

Nowhere near as much as someone like Mitch Johnson did most of his career.

The last couple of years he seems the have less periods where he is really loose.

I'd put him on par with Stuart Broad basically. Ie a pretty handy second bowler

 

[morgieb]

This deck is kind of nuts ngl. Batting fourth might be... interesting.

Yeah the pitch feels closer to something you'd see in South Africa or that Brisbane wicket a couple of years ago rather than an English or New Zealand wicket that flattens out after Day 2. Somehow 150 might legitimately be a good score on this!

 

[Spark]

Yeah I've been saying it for years even when he was at his peak. Literally the only shot he plays against the pacers through the offside is the front foot cover drive.

He barely ever plays the cut shot, doesn't play the back foot punches through the covers, doesn't even try to run the ball down to third man with little dabs like other players do. Think back to even his peak years, he never really was a prominent exponent of these shots, all of which are kinda crucial if you want to succeed at test level against most deliveries which are bowled in the off stump corridor. For a supposed ATG he is incredibly limited as a strokeplayer.

It's probably the main reason I struggle to think of him as an ATG. Not the statistical reasons, though they're obviously the consequence, but because I don't think you can be a truly great player if there's such an obvious gameplan that any attack in history can employ against you with good confidence of having success.

 

[morgieb]

It's weird because if you look at averages compared to the other quicks in the games he played he's basically identical to Brett lee.

I think the difference is Lee was either really good or out and out terrible. Similar with Johnson. Starc does have on and off series but I don't think the gap between his best and worst is as extreme, nor are his on and off patches that long. Usually he's roughly in the "good but not great" range.

 

[stephen]

It's weird because if you look at averages compared to the other quicks in the games he played he's basically identical to Brett lee.

McDermott was basically our only bowler for much of his career and wasn't an ATG bowler so his average probably suffered a bit from that. He also had the indignity of sandwiching his career between Lillee and McGrath. In a better team he's a 25-26 average bowler.

 

[Spark]

Geez this is torrid.

 

[Starfighter]

I think the difference is Lee was either really good or out and out terrible. Similar with Johnson. Starc does have on and off series but I don't think the gap between his best and worst is as extreme, nor are his on and off patches that long. Usually he's roughly in the "good but not great" range.

See I'd have said the opposite of that. Certainly earlier in his career, up to about 2017, he was very Mitchell Johnson-eqsue, though spell-to-spell rather than match-to-match. It was during that period he was notorious for picking up with wickets with the second new ball after often bowing badly with the first. He's been more consistent recently but he still has bad spells.

 

[Arachnödouche2.0]

Fun stat: Craig McDermott took 291 wkts in 124 innings. Pat Cummins is currently bowling in his 124th innings and has 289 wkts, so needs 2 wkts to equal

Easy to forget how fine a bowler Billy was. My earliest hero alongside Allan Donald.

 

[stephen]

Fun stat: Craig McDermott took 291 wkts in 124 innings. Pat Cummins is currently bowling in his 124th innings and has 289 wkts, so needs 2 wkts to equal

Shows just how much of the load McDermott shouldered in his day. Forgotten man of Australian pace bowling.

 

[Spark]

Yeah the pitch feels closer to something you'd see in South Africa or that Brisbane wicket a couple of years ago rather than an English or New Zealand wicket that flattens out after Day 2. Somehow 150 might legitimately be a good score on this!

It feels like one of those extra spicy Shield SCG decks and those can be nightmarish of late.

 

[subshakerz]

Yeah I've been saying it for years even when he was at his peak. Literally the only shot he plays against the pacers through the offside is the front foot cover drive.

He barely ever plays the cut shot, doesn't play the back foot punches through the covers, doesn't even try to run the ball down to third man with little dabs like other players do. Think back to even his peak years, he never really was a prominent exponent of these shots, all of which are kinda crucial if you want to succeed at test level against most deliveries which are bowled in the off stump corridor. For a supposed ATG he is incredibly limited as a strokeplayer.

This is all very true. Now that I think about it, he has a very limited offside game to pacers compared to other greats.

 

[subshakerz]

It feels like one of those extra spicy Shield SCG decks and those can be nightmarish of late.

I don't think a score of 150 will be enough.

 

[Starfighter]

In a better team he's a 25-26 average bowler.

Eh, I doubt it. McDermott had two phases to his career. He started off bowling very fast and very wild and picked up a fair few injuries as well. He missed all of 1989 and 1990 and when he came back he was probably a similar pace to what Cummins is now and had a five year period where he bowled with good consistency and control before age and further injures did him in.

 

[Spark]

I don't think a score of 150 will be enough.

Depends on what it does tomorrow. It seems to have quickened up in this session

 

[social]

Nowhere near as much as someone like Mitch Johnson did most of his career.

The last couple of years he seems the have less periods where he is really loose.

I'd put him on par with Stuart Broad basically. Ie a pretty handy second bowler

Broad was an atg dude

 

[Starfighter]

Bugger. That Smith let off could prove important, they're not scoring much these two but they're using up time and the bowlers' energy. It's generally been around the 40th over this series that the ball has lost it zip.

 

[nightprowler10]

Seems like a bit of an unsafe deck tbh.