Where will Steve Smith end up being ranked?

[Johan]

Why, I already have Bradman, Ponting and Chappell as my 3-5 in the first ATG XI and Smith is not getting any better

He is better than two there, and it's obvious which two

 

[Qlder]

He is better than two there, and it's obvious which two

Well that's your opinion. Having seen Chappell, Ponting and Smith play for most of their careers I'll stick with my choice

 

[Johan]

Well that's your opinion. Having seen Chappell, Ponting and Smith play for most of their careers I'll stick with my choice

fair enough Ig

 

[sayon basak]

Why, I already have Bradman, Ponting and Chappell as my 3-5 in the first ATG XI and Smith is not getting any better

Smith for Ponting if he doesn't face a similar downfall.

 

[Qlder]

Smith for Ponting if he doesn't face a similar downfall.

This really grinds my gears. Why are people not able to acknowledge that elite players get old and their eyes and reflexes suffer. ATG players should never be judged on their last years just because they chose to play on when technically past it.

Ricky Ponting, Viv Richards and Ian Botham would be rated 3 of the greatest players ever, except people just seem to look at their final stats after playing years too long destroying their averages

 

[sayon basak]

This really grinds my gears. Why are people not able to acknowledge that elite players get old and their eyes and reflexes suffer. ATG players should never be judged on their last years just because they chose to play on when technically past it.

Ricky Ponting, Viv Richards and Ian Botham would be rated 3 of the greatest players ever, except people just seem to look at their final stats after playing years too long destroying their averages

What if someone produces ATG performances in those last years? Should we completely overlook that? Shouldn't he be rated even higher as he overcame those limitations?

 

[Johan]

This really grinds my gears. Why are people not able to acknowledge that elite players get old and their eyes and reflexes suffer. ATG players should never be judged on their last years just because they chose to play on when technically past it.

Ricky Ponting, Viv Richards and Ian Botham would be rated 3 of the greatest players ever, except people just seem to look at their final stats after playing years too long destroying their averages

Botham fell off very early tbh

 

[sayon basak]

Botham fell off very early tbh

Maybe he aged a bit early.

 

[Qlder]

Botham fell off very early tbh

Doesn't change how great he was before he got too fat

 

[Johan]

Doesn't change how great he was before he got too fat

he got fat in 85-86 now?

 

[sayon basak]

If a player gets fat, it's a "him" problem.

 

[Qlder]

Here's an example. People are fanboying over how much of an ATG Bumrah already is.

Bumrah has 41 Tests, 181 wkts @ 20.06, 11 5fers, 0 10fers

Botham at 41 Tests, 202 wkts @ 21.20, 17 5fers and 4 10fers. He also had 1977 runs @ 32.40 with 8 centuries

Note: Botham's 41 Tests to get get 200 wkts was the 2nd fastest ever for a pace bowler after Dennis Lillee (who took 38 tests)

You tell me who should be considered greater?

 

[sayon basak]

Here's an example. People are fanboying over how much of an ATG Bumrah already is.

Bumrah has 41 Tests, 181 wkts @ 20.06, 11 5fers, 0 10fers

Botham at 41 Tests, 202 wkts @ 21.20, 17 5fers and 4 10fers. He also had 1977 runs @ 32.40 with 8 centuries

You tell me who should be considered greater?

Don't think a lot of people rates Bumrah ahead of Botham as an overall cricketer yet.

But, if Bumrah continues like this, he definitely should be.

 

[subshakerz]

Does not compute

Why not? Smith is the top bat of his era and doesn't have the weaknesses that Lara has but does have his strength in terms of ATG series.

 

[subshakerz]

This will be controversial and roundly disparaged.

But I think peak Smith was almost / just below Bradman.

Factoring in the modern game, increased travel and variance of conditions and the modern attacks... the ruthless machine like scoring, what must have been the feeling of inevitability every time he came to the crease, the monster series.

It felt like the maximum that could be achieved.

Peak Viv was better.

 

[kyear2]

This really grinds my gears. Why are people not able to acknowledge that elite players get old and their eyes and reflexes suffer. ATG players should never be judged on their last years just because they chose to play on when technically past it.

Ricky Ponting, Viv Richards and Ian Botham would be rated 3 of the greatest players ever, except people just seem to look at their final stats after playing years too long destroying their averages

Yeah, people forget what Ponting's comparable averages were before his decline.

If I recall correctly he was in the 60's, and absolutely brutal.

 

[kyear2]

Peak Viv was better.

I agree, but not an argument I want to engage in.

 

[Qlder]

Yeah, people forget what Ponting's comparable averages were before his decline.

If I recall correctly he was in the 60's, and absolutely brutal.

Ponting only topped 60 average in one innings from memory but definitely Ponting and Viv were thought of as brutal high 50's batting gods for most of their career, nothing like their low 50's averages they ended up with because of age

At 35 it's all down hill for Smith from here. Even now at the same number of innings Smith averages 56.40 whereas Ponting was averaging 58.72

 

[Arachnödouche2.0]

A career has to be judged wholly and bookends absolutely matter. There's no maturing on the job or a romantic walk into the sunset in international sport; every time you flop your team suffers, regardless of whether you've barely sprouted pubes or have old shriveled prunes for balls. Having said that, Smith slots in nicely between Sachin and Lara; makes me retch a little to say it but the guy did monumental things in his pomp.

 

[govinda indian fan]

Here's an example. People are fanboying over how much of an ATG Bumrah already is.

Bumrah has 41 Tests, 181 wkts @ 20.06, 11 5fers, 0 10fers

Botham at 41 Tests, 202 wkts @ 21.20, 17 5fers and 4 10fers. He also had 1977 runs @ 32.40 with 8 centuries

You tell me who should be considered greater?

Nobody says bumrah is better then botham. Bumarh is fast bowler while sir ian was all rounder cant compere Apple with oranges and yes botham is atg and second greatest all rounder after gary sobers. It is universally agreed