How would 80s WI and 2000s Australia fare in unbeatable current India?

[OverratedSanity]

Wow, this is harsh considering your opinion means so much to me, how will I go on.

I stand by what I said, in that second test, how many overs did your best player bowl? If you're preparing pitches that neutralizes your best player seems counter initiative to me, my only point.

Why focus on one test? You were clearly saying the general trend of spinning pitches in India has blunted bumrah at home. So I'll ask you again, what's the evidence for this considering bumrah has Sydney Barnes numbers in home test?

Also do elaborate how its hurt india in overseas tests ,when it's actually coincided with a period where we've had quite a bit of success winning away from home.

 

[subshakerz]

they were also the best team in the world away in the past 12 years

and yes Indian pitches spin. They always have. Bumrah has most def not been neutralized.

you’re a joke

It's just wrong to say that having regular 1st day turners was the norm in Indian cricket before.

You can still gloat over Indias recent home record while acknowledging the pitch factor.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

I think pitches have definitely been spicier than normal since like 2021 but not sure about before that. India were scoring a lot of runs at home from like 2016-2019.

Pretty sure Kohli asked for spicy pitches after they lost to England in 2021 and that’s continued till today maybe because of the WTC. They will go back to pitches like before eventually though.

 

[subshakerz]

I think pitches have definitely been spicier than normal since like 2021 but not sure about before that. India were scoring a lot of runs at home from like 2016-2019.

Pretty sure Kohli asked for spicy pitches after they lost to England in 2021 and that’s continued till today maybe because of the WTC. They will go back to pitches like before eventually though.

I mean we can disagree on timeline while just accepting what our eyes see.

 

[kyear2]

Am I misreading this comment?

The idea that decisions made by traditional cricketing powers should determine how conditions are in other places feels like it could be incredibly, incredibly problematic to me.

Where did I say that?

Traditional powers weren't even mentioned.

I'm saying if the balance is 6 - 2, which would fall under the description of tailor made. Which of I recall was where this conversation started.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Poor Bumrah. He's picked up 47 wickets in 12 tests at home at an average of 17. India have neutralized their best weapon and rendered him toothless at home

You blokes just type out any nonsense lmao

Let alone Bumrah, all Indian pacers combined averages sub 25. Umesh, Shami and Ishant outplayed tourists day in and out and where on of the reasons behind Bumrah getting a good at home that late.

 

[kyear2]

they were also the best team in the world away in the past 12 years

and yes Indian pitches spin. They always have. Bumrah has most def not been neutralized.

you’re a joke

Ummmmm

Apparently the joke just might be India right now.

But on a serious note, this whole notion that there can be no criticism of anything India related and all decisions and players are beyond rebuke has gone way too far.

About 6 of you jump to attack mode and call people names. I love the cowboys, but they do stupid **** and seems to have forgot how to build teams. This entire bullshit scenario where if you have anything to say you're a hater is just silly.

I don't watch every team the way some do, but I watch India, Australia, England and sometimes SA (and obviously who they play), and I really like some of the emerging players India has, love Jaiswal, don't hate and not jealous of success, I just like to watch good cricket.

 

[Coronis]

Where did I say that?

Traditional powers weren't even mentioned.

I'm saying if the balance is 6 - 2, which would fall under the description of tailor made. Which of I recall was where this conversation started.

If anything it means all of them are tailor making pitches or none. Some have pitches for pace some for spin.. but only one gets criticised because the majority of countries are worse at producing spinners or playing spin. And particularly since India began producing some decent pacers.

Everyone still against the minority.

 

[subshakerz]

If anything it means all of them are tailor making pitches or none. Some have pitches for pace some for spin.. but only one gets criticised because the majority of countries are worse at producing spinners or playing spin. And particularly since India began producing some decent pacers.

Everyone still against the minority.

Pretty sure tailormade is about the conditions favoring one particular type of bowling way more than others. SA pitches are tailormade for pacers. Indian for spinners. But just saying all pitches are tailormade is reductive.

Btw if you are regularly producing games ending in 3 days that deserves criticism regardless of it is SA or India.

 

[subshakerz]

But on a serious note, this whole notion that there can be no criticism of anything India related and all decisions and players are beyond rebuke has gone way too far.

About 6 of you jump to attack mode and call people names. I love the cowboys, but they do stupid **** and seems to have forgot how to build teams. This entire bullshit scenario where if you have anything to say you're a hater is just silly.

What you are talking is nothing new on this forum. Been a feature really.

 

[ma1978]

Ummmmm

Apparently the joke just might be India right now.

But on a serious note, this whole notion that there can be no criticism of anything India related and all decisions and players are beyond rebuke has gone way too far.

About 6 of you jump to attack mode and call people names. I love the cowboys, but they do stupid **** and seems to have forgot how to build teams. This entire bullshit scenario where if you have anything to say you're a hater is just silly.

I don't watch every team the way some do, but I watch India, Australia, England and sometimes SA (and obviously who they play), and I really like some of the emerging players India has, love Jaiswal, don't hate and not jealous of success, I just like to watch good cricket.

I’m not at all displeased with India’s loss, isn’t fact, it’s part of the circle of life and a sign it’s time to rebuild. I’m actually happy test cricket can provide surprising results.

This isn’t about criticism of India, it’s about perpetuating an argument where there’s no analytical basis to feed whatever other stereotypes you have. India has always been spin friendly and there’s just no hard evidence that suggests it’s become more so.

 

[ma1978]

Pretty sure tailormade is about the conditions favoring one particular type of bowling way more than others. SA pitches are tailormade for pacers. Indian for spinners. But just saying all pitches are tailormade is reductive.

Btw if you are regularly producing games ending in 3 days that deserves criticism regardless of it is SA or India.

I also like the South African pitches. Variety is the spice of life.

 

[honestbharani]

u kinda know how dumb the argument is when both salty and kyear speak for the same thing.

 

[Xix2565]

My opinion has never changed in this matter and have said this all before.

Also since you're obviously not in a state of disbelief, quite clearly level headed and not emotional right now, sure I'll answer.

If there's 8 traditional test teams and only two where for an entire tour one is likely to require 3 spinners and no pacers, which is the outlier?

Since the resumption of cricket after WW2, pace has been king and having at least one great one the new template to test success.

With the advent of covered pitches the balance of power finally fully tilted towards the faster men, with resistance only really seen from two countries. Out side of those 2, the template has been 3 pacers and 1 spinner to capitalize on deteriorating or last day pitches, and to assist with over rates, well at least since the powers that be deemed it necessary to hasten the decline of the West Indies pace dependent teams.

So yes, if in 2024 there are pitches where 3 spinners are rolled out, with the intent to benefit the home team's two spinners, what else are we to call it? How many instances in the past couple tours, where touring spinners had career best match figures, and match winning ones at that?

Not to add, it's short sighted and overall not in the best interest of the team. Your best player, the one that has almost single handledly made your team competitive and a threat away from the subcontinent, being somewhat neutralized.

So yes, in the past I've used other words, but I'll stick to tailor made for now. And those conditions does little to prepare your teams for overseas success. But that's hardly important is it...

As usual, no point in debating reality with you when you decide to ignore that pitches made for teams to play 4+ fast bowlers are just as tailor made as the ones you complain about. There is no genuine meta reason to having a lot of fast bowlers unless conditions suit them, and that you refuse to recognise that is insanity. Please never post about cricket again.

 

[subshakerz]

I also like the South African pitches. Variety is the spice of life.

I do to. But not if the game ends in 2 days like when India last toured.

 

[subshakerz]

u kinda know how dumb the argument is when both salty and kyear speak for the same thing.

Right as if there isn't already a certain pack of posters operating with their herd mentality as soon as anyone goes out of line.

 

[subshakerz]

I’m not at all displeased with India’s loss, isn’t fact, it’s part of the circle of life and a sign it’s time to rebuild. I’m actually happy test cricket can provide surprising results.

This isn’t about criticism of India, it’s about perpetuating an argument where there’s no analytical basis to feed whatever other stereotypes you have. India has always been spin friendly and there’s just no hard evidence that suggests it’s become more so.

When did you start watching cricket? Did you even see the 2000s?

 

[ma1978]

When did you start watching cricket? Did you even see the 2000s?

yes I saw the 2000s (admittedly was living in the US then when cricket was harder to come by). Those were the anomaly not today. I also saw the 90s and at least some of the 80s. The first test innings I saw was the Gavaskar 96 on a total minefield which is why I don’t think pitches are anything new

 

[ma1978]

Also that 16 wicket haul by Narendra Hirwani that took down a champion West Indies team, so these pitches are nothing new

 

[subshakerz]

Also that 16 wicket haul by Narendra Hirwani that took down a champion West Indies team, so these pitches are nothing new

Nobody is saying there weren't major turners and lottery pitches back then, but the frequency of Day 1 turners is more now.