Joe Root vs Dravid

[PlayerComparisons]

I think Joe Root is an excellent bat, arguably the best of the modern era, but the only way an English cricketer should be judged is how they play in the Ashes and given this, he is an irrelevance

It’s like an ODI batsman always failing in world cups.

Root does have 6 more tests in Aus though but I think Aus’s bowling attack and pitches are too difficult for most players these days. Have to be Kohli/De Villiers level to do well there these days.

 

[GIMH]

I think Joe Root is an excellent bat, arguably the best of the modern era, but the only way an English cricketer should be judged is how they play in the Ashes and given this, he is an irrelevance

I mean he has four Ashes tons, one of them a double. MOTS in 2015. Even if it was the only thing he’d ever done in the Ashes, his ton in the first innings at Trent Bridge in 2015 should live long in the memory. 124 not out at the end of day 1 after Oz were skittled for 60. One for the ages. Not bad for an irrelevance.

 

[sayon basak]

Bangladesh are about to win a series in Pakistan. They’ve got good bowlers, especially at home.

Nahid Rana, surprisingly, became the only bowler in Bangladesh to bowl 150 kmph or above (152kmph). The second highest was Rubel hossain at 149.5 kmph, followed by taskin at 149.3 kmph

 

[Howe_zat]

nothing gets excluded. But matches vs them hold far less weight just like those vs Bangladesh. And so it's necessary to see stats with and without to see a player's output against non-weak opponents.

Nobody is using the word minnow. Only minnows are Afg and Ire. But WI, SL and Ban are 2nd tier weak nations in Test Cricket.

It's (a) completely obtuse to organise each team into a binary 'stat pad team' vs 'non stat pad team' and then (b) completely forget what different teams were actually like on top of that.

I personally don't think Dravid's runs against Bangladesh should be removed. But the reason it comes up is because at that time they were so weak that it was felt that who scored runs against them literally didn't matter, because someone always would.

To remind you, this is what Bangladesh were doing when Dravid was playing them. Look at the margins.



To compare that to the current West Indies side, who would have won at Trent Bridge if Root hadn't scored his runs, and who did win in Grenada last time out basically because it was the one test where Root didn't score runs, is completely wrong-headed. It's not remotely a viable comparison in any way.

 

[centurymaker]

You have posted misleading and selective stats. Take a closer look- most of those innings defeats for Bangladesh are Away on foreign soil! While India only played Bangladesh in Bangladesh, never in India.

Why only highlight the period from 2004 to 2007? when Rahul Dravid played them beyond that too! He only batted 5 times vs Bangladesh during that period.

0 (1st Test 2004)
160 (2nd Test 2004)

61 & 2 (1st Test 2007) - Match drawn
129 (2nd Test 2007)




outside of that his other innings vs Bangladesh-
28
41
4
24
111*

 

[centurymaker]

It's very valid to divide teams into weak vs non-weak teams because some teams are weak or their bowling is weak, particularly away from home.

For instance, Sri Lankan fast bowling is as weak as it gets and has been that way since long time. Batting vs SL trundlers in England is an easier task than batting vs Bangladeshi spinners in Bangladesh. Runs vs SL in SL have much more legitimacy than any runs vs SL in England.

 

[centurymaker]

To compare that to the current West Indies side, who would have won at Trent Bridge if Root hadn't scored his runs, and who did win in Grenada last time out basically because it was the one test where Root didn't score runs, is completely wrong-headed. It's not remotely a viable comparison in any way.

Another contentious point from your post.

West Indies were in no position to "win" at Trent Bridge, losing by 240 runs. Root came to bat at 122/2 in the 3rd innings. Even without Root, England win comfortably. It's hilarious that you have attributed the win to Root when England scored close to 850 runs in the game. Proper bullying of Windies bowling. England scored more than 700 runs without Root. Always enough batters ready to step up at home against weaker opposition. Thats what stat padding is.

 

[GIMH]

Another contentious point from your post.

West Indies were in no position to "win" at Trent Bridge, losing by 240 runs. Root came to bat at 122/2 in the 3rd innings. Even without Root, England win comfortably. It's hilarious that you have attributed the win to Root when England scored close to 850 runs in the game. Proper bullying of Windies bowling. England scored more than 700 runs without Root. Always enough batters ready to step up at home against weaker opposition. Using your terminology. Thats what stat padding is.


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Did you watch that game? We conceded a first innings deficit and before the Root/Brook partnership the game was firmly in the balance.

 

[Coronis]

Did you watch that game? We conceded a first innings deficit and before the Root/Brook partnership the game was firmly in the balance.

Apparently if Root got out for 0 everything else would have happened exactly the same

 

[Howe_zat]

Did you watch that game? We conceded a first innings deficit and before the Root/Brook partnership the game was firmly in the balance.

I don't think he has watched any cricket before.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

I think Joe Root is an excellent bat, arguably the best of the modern era, but the only way an English cricketer should be judged is how they play in the Ashes and given this, he is an irrelevance

Don’t think he has the best ashes record, but he was MOTS in 2015 Ashes

 

[centurymaker]

Did you watch that game? We conceded a first innings deficit and before the Root/Brook partnership the game was firmly in the balance.

Yes I did. At no point did I think West Indies can win the test. They were lucky to take a lead after 70 run last wicket stand.

At 122/2 which was effectively 90/2, England seemed destined to set a target above 250 at the very least if not 300+ even if Root had gone for a low score. West Indies wouldn't have chased that in the 4th innings (highly unlikely).

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Don’t think he has the best ashes record, but he was MOTS in 2015 Ashes

Tbf to Root, I think ATGs from past eras would struggle in some of these ashes series. Particularly the series in 13/14, and 21/22.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Tbf to Root, I think ATGs from past eras would struggle in some of these ashes series. Particularly the series in 13/14, and 21/22.

I think that’s why Kohli’s and AB’s(especially) achievements against the Johnson of that time are heralded and held in a special light

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Yea 13/14 had peak Mitch Johnson and peak Ryan Harris and 21/22 was also against ATG bowling on the spiciest pitches seen in Australia over the past few decades.

I’m pretty confident Root could replicate Dravids/Sehwag’s record in Aus if he faced the same attacks/pitches.

 

[Arachnodouche]

Root's brilliant. Immensely skillful player. Probably the most impregnable-looking player atm as well (apart from KW when he gets to play Test cricket which is so rare that I forget what he looks like at the crease) i.e. when he's not thinking up ways of getting himself out. Hopefully has that one big tour of Aus in him.

 

[BazBall21]

I suspect the timing of the poll has helped Root but I'm a bit surprised he's winning.

 

[Johan]

Root's brilliant. Immensely skillful player. Probably the most impregnable-looking player atm as well (apart from KW when he gets to play Test cricket which is so rare that I forget what he looks like at the crease) i.e. when he's not thinking up ways of getting himself out. Hopefully has that one big tour of Aus in him.

Huh?

 

[Coronis]

Huh?

“unable to be defeated or overcome”

 

[subshakerz]

Yea 13/14 had peak Mitch Johnson and peak Ryan Harris and 21/22 was also against ATG bowling on the spiciest pitches seen in Australia over the past few decades.

I’m pretty confident Root could replicate Dravids/Sehwag’s record in Aus if he faced the same attacks/pitches.

Dravid has a pretty ordinary record in Aus and only one good series out of four.