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Hadlee Vs Viv Richards

Hadlee Vs Viv Richards

  • Total voters
    37
OverratedSanity

OverratedSanity

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kyear2 said:
If Richards has holes in his record, don't know what you call what Warne and Murali has.
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You look at "holes" just in terms of vs country slices. I could make easily an argument Viv's relative lack of consistency compared to other ATGs, and less impressive output of runs/hundreds is actually a far bigger and more glaring "hole" than Murali failing in one particular country in a handful of games.

The idea that Warne Murali have zero argument ahead of those batsmen like you implied is crazy imo.
 
H

HouHsiaoHsien

International Debutant
I agree Hadlee is better than Viv. I also agree an average 26-27 is not middling(Steyn in Aus I rate very highly). But Viv is more or less as good in his primarily discipline and that is not a wrong take.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
HouHsiaoHsien said:
I agree Hadlee is better than Viv. I also agree an average 26-27 is not middling(Steyn in Aus I rate very highly). But Viv is more or less as good in his primarily discipline and that is not a wrong take.
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Steyn takes 5 wickets a test in Australia. No way can that be compared to Hadlee in WI just because of raw average.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
HouHsiaoHsien said:
I agree Hadlee is better than Viv. I also agree an average 26-27 is not middling(Steyn in Aus I rate very highly). But Viv is more or less as good in his primarily discipline and that is not a wrong take.
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Can get behind that. Viv is clearly behind Hadlee at his primary for me, but at that level the gulf is never too wide.
But saying Hadlee played 80% of his matches at home, Australia and England, which was used as his main weakness, when Viv did exactly that was kinda confusing.....
 
H

HouHsiaoHsien

International Debutant
OverratedSanity said:
You look at "holes" just in terms of vs country slices. I could make easily an argument Viv's relative lack of consistency compared to other ATGs, and less impressive output of runs/hundreds is actually a far bigger and more glaring "hole" than Murali failing in one particular country in a handful of games.

The idea that Warne Murali have zero argument ahead of those batsmen like you implied is crazy imo.
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Viv also had the best short term peak ever. Also had no weakness in any conditions(Nz is only three tests and barely a sample size). Viv has ATG stats in England and Aus(average of 48 at an amazing SR over a sustained period, and probably the best series there by a modern bat). He was brilliant at home, pretty good in India, had atleast one ATG series in Pakistan. Now I’m not saying anyone who rates Murali or Warne ahead of him is wrong(or although it is a clear choice), but the opposite is also true. And I know you probably don’t hold this position. But Viv’s reputation has been unfairly falling a lot, whereas for someone like Sobers his relatively unimpressive home away split is rarely addressed.
 
H

HouHsiaoHsien

International Debutant
capt_Luffy said:
Can get behind that. Viv is clearly behind Hadlee at his primary for me, but at that level the gulf is never too wide.
But saying Hadlee played 80% of his matches at home, Australia and England, which was used as his main weakness, when Viv did exactly that was kinda confusing.....
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Yeah I always said Hadlee is clearly a top 5 of all time cricketer for me.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
capt_Luffy said:
Can get behind that. Viv is clearly behind Hadlee at his primary for me, but at that level the gulf is never too wide.
But saying Hadlee played 80% of his matches at home, Australia and England, which was used as his main weakness, when Viv did exactly that was kinda confusing.....
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I feel you only get bits and pieces of my arguments.

It is not just 80% was played in one area, it is also that his samples outside that are scarce.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
subshakerz said:
I feel you only get bits and pieces of my arguments.

It is not just 80% was played in one area, it is also that his samples outside that are scarce.
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I mean, that would be true for all pacers as fast bowlers in general play much less than batsmen and Hadlee more so being from NZ, who tour SC and WI less often.
 
H

HouHsiaoHsien

International Debutant
OverratedSanity said:
Smh then what's the point, did you even look at the post I responded to.
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I know. That’s why I said I wasn’t talking about you. But slowly Viv is suffering a massive decline in perception, and not for fair reasons. I’m not being Bob Willis and saying he was close to Bradman or even the 2nd or 3rd best. But he is very much in the argument. I was just trying to set that straight, no offence. And I agree with most of your points here.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
OverratedSanity said:
You look at "holes" just in terms of vs country slices. I could make easily an argument Viv's relative lack of consistency compared to other ATGs, and less impressive output of runs/hundreds is actually a far bigger and more glaring "hole" than Murali failing in one particular country in a handful of games.

The idea that Warne Murali have zero argument ahead of those batsmen like you implied is crazy imo.
Click to expand...
Which other ATGs, really?

Tendulkar has a bunch of 40s against countries in his record too.

Sobers was getting flack for being unimpressive outside.

Lara is just flat out worse than Viv in terms of consistency output.
 
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