How much did slip cordons affect McGrath's and Wasim's records?

[kyear2]

More importantly, what would Mcgrath average of he had Aamir Sohail shelling a catch in the slips off his bowling once a week? Would he have continued with his same corridor bowling MO and retained his effectiveness or be forced to bowl a straighter line somewhat negating the advantages his height gave him and blunting the effectiveness of his most prolific mode of dismissal?

I assume going forward we're factoring in elite guys in the cordon just as you'll do lower order batting, considering how much they compliment if not elevates the bowlers and teams. @subshakerz

Wouldn't want the bowlers in an arg XI having to deal with what Wasim did.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I assume going forward we're factoring in elite guys in the cordon just as you'll do lower order batting, considering how much they compliment if not elevates the bowlers and teams. @subshakerz

Wouldn't want the bowlers in an arg XI having to deal with what Wasim did.

I think there is a huge gap between being horribly inefficient and good, but not the best.

 

[Bolo.]

I think especially that 99 tour and those great Aussie umps have been discussed here on more than a few occasions.

The 94ish RSA series for me more especially. In one particularly egregious passage, they turned down about 8 consecutive lbws to give AUS a series tie. Never seen an RSA team that pissed off.

 

[kyear2]

I think there is a huge gap between being horribly inefficient and good, but not the best.

Like the batting? Like the difference between Martin and Marshall? But not the best?

Becuse of we want the best Hammond or Chappell could easily fill in for Sachin.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Like the batting? Like the difference between Martin and Marshall? But not the best?

Becuse of we want the best Hammond or Chappell could easily fill in for Sachin.

No. Not like batting. Fielding is never like batting. Having a better batsman is ALWAYS beneficiary; an ATG fielder over a Great one only sometimes.

 

[kyear2]

No. Not like batting. Fielding is never like batting. Having a better batsman is ALWAYS beneficiary; an ATG fielder over a Great one only sometimes.

What?

So lower order batting is always important, but better catching is only more important sometimes?

What????

 

[capt_Luffy]

What?

So lower order batting is always important, but better catching is only more important sometimes?

What????

Yes, lower order batting is always important; but after a certain level of competence, better catching is more like a small bonus.

 

[subshakerz]

More importantly, what would Mcgrath average of he had Aamir Sohail shelling a catch in the slips off his bowling once a week? Would he have continued with his same corridor bowling MO and retained his effectiveness or be forced to bowl a straighter line somewhat negating the advantages his height gave him and blunting the effectiveness of his most prolific mode of dismissal?

Good point.

 

[subshakerz]

Yes it impacted Wasim's career, but I don't value Wasim on raw numbers.

How much do you estimate it impacted his record? How many wickets range are we talking about?

Please don't say there is no way to tell (you are the guy who famously tried to switch runs for slip catches) or engage in ball tampering whataboutism.

 

[subshakerz]

Most of the great ones had tremendous cordons, were taking away from each of them?

It's part of the game

Ah yes, when it is the wrong cricketer who had it difficult, suddenly 'its part of the game'.

Meanwhile, you don't fail to mention 'McGrath in a batting era' in every other thread.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Ah yes, when it is the wrong cricketer who had it difficult, suddenly 'its part of the game'.

Meanwhile, you don't fail to mention 'McGrath in a batting era' in every other thread.

How come "McGrath in a batting era" be used against McGrath??

 

[subshakerz]

How come "McGrath in a batting era" be used against McGrath??

No he uses that for McGrath, as in the difficulties McGrath faced, in order to hype him up.

But when it comes to Wasim's slip drops, it's just 'part of the game'.

 

[TheJediBrah]

How many threads do you ****s need to argue about the same thing

 

[kyear2]

Yes, lower order batting is always important; but after a certain level of competence, better catching is more like a small bonus.

Yes it's been so important that again I repeat, it's never been a feature of the great teams and the 3 best teams of our lifetimes did without the.

This is a a philosophy of our own creation.

I will repeat, show me an AT team even including ours, where all the bowlers were selected on the criteria of batting.

Just one.

 

[subshakerz]

How many threads do you ****s need to argue about the same thing

This is my first on the slips issue.

 

[subshakerz]

Yes it's been so important that again I repeat, it's never been a feature of the great teams and the 3 best teams of our lifetimes did without the.

Because they didn't have bowling ARs available and didn't need them as they were vastly superior to other sides.

 

[kyear2]

How many threads do you ****s need to argue about the same thing

I'll drop it.

 

[kyear2]

No he uses that for McGrath, as in the difficulties McGrath faced, in order to hype him up.

But when it comes to Wasim's slip drops, it's just 'part of the game'.

Wasn't a difficulty McGrath faced?

Wasim's slip drops were a factor, who ever said they weren't.

And as some jokingly said earlier, he had other factors in his favor as well.

But that aside, but as this is a discussion you've brought up before, where's do you think this catapults him?

He's about 10 / 11 now, where does this adjustment place him.

 

[subshakerz]

Wasn't a difficulty McGrath faced?

Wasim's slip drops were a factor, who ever said they weren't.

And as some jokingly said earlier, he had other factors in his favor as well.

But that aside, but as this is a discussion you've brought up before, where's do you think this catapults him?

He's about 10 / 11 now, where does this adjustment place him.

If adjusted then surely ahead of Trueman and maybe Lillee. Even can debate him with Ambrose.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Yes it's been so important that again I repeat, it's never been a feature of the great teams and the 3 best teams of our lifetimes did without the.

This is a a philosophy of our own creation.

I will repeat, show me an AT team even including ours, where all the bowlers were selected on the criteria of batting.

Just one.

Will you please drop the straw man?? Please tell me an ATG team, just one; which had the Khan, Hadlee and Procter together??? There is only of them, none played for any ATG team. Can you show me a team where an ATG team where a batsman gets in due to his bowling. But I can still give you two teams, one which was the best of it's time, the best pre WWI; and the other which didn't play due to apartheid.

England 1902:

Archie Maclaren*
C B Fry
K S Ranjitsinhji
Johnny Tyldesly
Stanley Jackson
Gilbert Jessop
George Hirst
Dick Lilley+
Bill Lockwood
Len Braud
Wilfred Rhodes

Have arguments to be England's best team of all time; all 11 players have multiple FC centuries, I mean, Rhodes is batting at 11 here.


South Africa mid 70s:

Barry Richards
Jimmy Cook
Peter Kirsten
Graeme Pollock
Eddie Barlow*
Clive Rice
Denis Lindsay+
Mike Procter
Alan Kourie
Garth Le Roux
Vincent van der Bijl