• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

All time Australia XIs - a discussion

peterhrt

U19 Vice-Captain
As a young cricketer Grimmett wanted to play for New Zealand. He was on standby for the 1913-14 tour to Australia but wasn't called up. New Zealand had already faced Australia four times to this point, and played another couple of internationals on the tour. The fact the matches weren't retrospectively given Test status was irrelevant at the time. Australia fielded Trumper, Noble, Armstrong, Mailey and Collins, as well as JN Crawford who had settled in the country. In the past Hill, Duff, Bardsley, Cotter and Syd Gregory had also turned out.

In 1914 Grimmett decided to try his luck in Sydney grade cricket. His path to the NSW side was blocked by Mailey. Moving to Melbourne, he was picked by Victoria only five times in five years. At the age of 32 he moved again to Adelaide where he finally got his chance, often pretending he was younger than he really was and bowling in a cap to hide his baldness.
 

capt_Luffy

International Captain
I didn't understood the people complaining about both O'Reilly and Warne being picked, as you already have 3 very capable seamers and O'Reilly was at his best in partnership with another leggie.....
 

kyear2

International Coach
I didn't understood the people complaining about both O'Reilly and Warne being picked, as you already have 3 very capable seamers and O'Reilly was at his best in partnership with another leggie.....
How many pitches facilitate or encourage the use of a second leggie.

It required the shortening of the batting line up

5 bowlers of that quality that are all capable and often bowled lengthy spells creates diminished return, especially with regards to what was given up for it.


You're on a spicy Sabina deck and a batsman and pacer short, but yes, the double spin attack would make up for it.
 

Coronis

International Coach
As a young cricketer Grimmett wanted to play for New Zealand. He was on standby for the 1913-14 tour to Australia but wasn't called up. New Zealand had already faced Australia four times to this point, and played another couple of internationals on the tour. The fact the matches weren't retrospectively given Test status was irrelevant at the time. Australia fielded Trumper, Noble, Armstrong, Mailey and Collins, as well as JN Crawford who had settled in the country. In the past Hill, Duff, Bardsley, Cotter and Syd Gregory had also turned out.

In 1914 Grimmett decided to try his luck in Sydney grade cricket. His path to the NSW side was blocked by Mailey. Moving to Melbourne, he was picked by Victoria only five times in five years. At the age of 32 he moved again to Adelaide where he finally got his chance, often pretending he was younger than he really was and bowling in a cap to hide his baldness.
I often forget that with regards to his age, its almost weird to think of a “Young Grimmett”

A lovely anecdote from his Sydney Club days (courtesy Wisden, thru cricinfo)

During this period he was once stopped in his tracks by M.A. Noble, his captain. 'D'you think you're the only one playing in this game?' said the great man. Clarrie was taken aback. He asked how he had offended. 'Don't you know there is a bowler on at the other end?' pursued Noble. 'Yes,' said Clarrie, 'but what's that to do with me?' He was told that the fast bowler at the other end hardly had time to put his sweater on before he had to take it off again. The little chap was taking 1 1/2 minutes to bowl a six-ball over. He was instructed henceforth to wait down the pitch and to walk back more slowly to his mark. How proud Noble would be today to see the doctrine so widely accepted.

And some stuff from O’Reilly

Ted McDonald had performed outstandingly for Victoria and was consequently the cynosure of all eyes when the Victorian team, on its way home to Melbourne, played an up-country match in the mountain city of Goulburn. Not quite all eyes, however. The attention of one pair, belonging to a thirteen-year-old boy named O'Reilly, was rivetted on a wiry little leg-spinner whose name on the local score-board was Grummett. To me, from that day onward, Grummett he remained, and my own endearing name for him throughout our later long association was Grum.

Bradman, it seemed had lost faith in the best spin bowler the world has seen. Grum's departure was a punishing blow to me and to my plans of attack. His diagnostic type of probing spin buttressed my own methods to such a degree that my reaction to his dismissal was one of infinite loss and loneliness.

With Grum at the other end, prepared to pick me up and dust me down, I feared no batsman.

Truly one of my favourite players of all time.
 

capt_Luffy

International Captain
How many pitches facilitate or encourage the use of a second leggie.

It required the shortening of the batting line up

5 bowlers of that quality that are all capable and often bowled lengthy spells creates diminished return, especially with regards to what was given up for it.


You're on a spicy Sabina deck and a batsman and pacer short, but yes, the double spin attack would make up for it.
Not too few actually, a second spinner of that quality will be effective anywhere.
No it didn't. The batting line-up is totally fine.
Miller didn't bowl lengthy spells. He is best utilised in a 5 man bowling attack, getting the proper returns.
On most occasions it will. Better to be on a spicy Sabina deck with a pacers short than to be in a Chennai turner without any spinner....
 

kyear2

International Coach
Not too few actually, a second spinner of that quality will be effective anywhere.
No it didn't. The batting line-up is totally fine.
Miller didn't bowl lengthy spells. He is best utilised in a 5 man bowling attack, getting the proper returns.
On most occasions it will. Better to be on a spicy Sabina deck with a pacers short than to be in a Chennai turner without any spinner....
You have a spinner though, Warne.
 

kyear2

International Coach
And O'Reilly is a better bowler than anyone but McGrath and Warne.
And you're dropping an ATG batsman to fit in reluctant 5th bowler who will hardly get in any overs, to make it happen for a bowler who wouldn't that that effective on most pitches around the world.
 

capt_Luffy

International Captain
And you're dropping an ATG batsman to fit in reluctant 5th bowler who will hardly get in any overs, to make it happen for a bowler who wouldn't that that effective on most pitches around the world.
O'Reilly was effective everywhere he played. Leg spinners are the least dependent on pitches among spinners. Miller adds more balance to the team.
 

kyear2

International Coach
O'Reilly was effective everywhere he played. Leg spinners are the least dependent on pitches among spinners. Miller adds more balance to the team.
That is very debatable.

And not comparing, but how many matches did McGill and Warne play together? In. On spinning conditions, in how many matches did they share the field together?
 

capt_Luffy

International Captain
That is very debatable.

And not comparing, but how many matches did McGill and Warne play together? In. On spinning conditions, in how many matches did they share the field together?
McGill would had played more had he been even remotely close to O'Reilly.....
 

Coronis

International Coach
Australia have picked two specialist leg-spinners in around 70 Tests, covering nearly a hundred years. That excludes part-timers like Simpson.
Not that many in the overall scheme of things tbh.

I mean sure, if your 2 clearly best bowlers are both spinners (as was the case with O’Reilly and Grimmett for example) go ahead and pick them both. I don’t think the gap is so big between O’Reilly and Lindwall/Davidson to warrant the exclusion of one of them. But thats just me personally.

Australia is of course in a unique situation with Bradman which makes Miller a viable option but yeah I guess it really comes down to personal preference.
 

peterhrt

U19 Vice-Captain
Not that many in the overall scheme of things tbh.

I mean sure, if your 2 clearly best bowlers are both spinners (as was the case with O’Reilly and Grimmett for example) go ahead and pick them both. I don’t think the gap is so big between O’Reilly and Lindwall/Davidson to warrant the exclusion of one of them. But thats just me personally.

Australia is of course in a unique situation with Bradman which makes Miller a viable option but yeah I guess it really comes down to personal preference.
The nature of Australian pitches in the 1920s and 1930s, with fuller covering, often made leg-spin the best option. Timeless Tests and a shortage of left-handed batsmen were other factors.

Benaud sometimes teamed up with Ring or Jack Hill during the early 1950s. Bruce Dooland was better than any of them at that time, but lost to English domestic cricket. There were rumours that Warne lobbied hard against MacGill's selection.

My impression is that O'Reilly was rated much higher in his own day than Davidson was in his. Davidson, perhaps a little unfairly, was regarded as a downgrade on Lindwall and Miller. Yes he has good stats, and was a fantastic fielder, but the low-scoring era flatters him as it does several others like Trueman.
 

Qlder

International Debutant
Surprised at the love for Langer. I guess my dislike for him as a coach/person has swayed my judgement but I always rated Taylor a better opener (despite a couple of dry patches)
 
Last edited:

the big bambino

International Captain
And you're dropping an ATG batsman to fit in reluctant 5th bowler who will hardly get in any overs, to make it happen for a bowler who wouldn't that that effective on most pitches around the world.
O’Reilly was successful in all four countries he played tests and none were spin friendly. Which isn’t surprising. As he was able to take wickets in Australia he can be relied to take them anywhere.
 

capt_Luffy

International Captain
O’Reilly was successful in all four countries he played tests and none were spin friendly. Which isn’t surprising. As he was able to take wickets in Australia he can be relied to take them anywhere.
Uncovered Australian wickets supported Leggies well though.
 

Top