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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

International Captain
CricketFan90s said:
why do you want to overload the team with old players. Cook is a fine opener and avoided taking players who were too much defensive like Boycott and Barrington.
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Barrington wasn't "too much defensive". His SR was perfectly fine. Imo, Cook is fine if you don't want to overload the openers too defensively and want a lefty, but Gower are KP aren't making it ahead of Compton, May and Barrington.
And to answer your question, the English team has been shut for the majority of 90s, improved partially in the 2000s and was great for a brief window in the late 00s early 10s and has been alright for awhile now, but overall, they have deteriorated from the 60s. It's like how in an ATG WI team, you can't put any player to debut post 2000s.
 
CricketFan90s

CricketFan90s

State Vice-Captain
capt_Luffy said:
Barrington wasn't "too much defensive". His SR was perfectly fine. Imo, Cook is fine if you don't want to overload the openers too defensively and want a lefty, but Gower are KP aren't making it ahead of Compton, May and Barrington.
And to answer your question, the English team has been shut for the majority of 90s, improved partially in the 2000s and was great for a brief window in the late 00s early 10s and has been alright for awhile now, but overall, they have deteriorated from the 60s. It's like how in an ATG WI team, you can't put any player to debut post 2000s.
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not really they dominated Australia for a while in 70s and 80s. they indeed produced quality players. just you are trying to overrate all old players. West Indies domination is different from England's.

David Gower was the Best Batsmen of England in 1980s
Kevin Pietersen was the Best Middle order batsmen for England in 2000s

Both had the Experience of facing the Best Teams in Cricket History 80s WI and 2000s Australia.
 
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F

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
CricketFan90s said:
Dream Ashes Series Who Will Win ?
(Only included Players Younger than Don Bradman)
Australia XI
1) Bob Simpson
2) Matthew Hayden
3) Ricky Ponting (c)
4) Steve Smith
5) Greg Chappell
6) Allan Border
7) Adam Gilchrist +
8) Shane Warne
9) Pat Cummins
10) Dennis Lillee
11) Glenn McGrath

England XI
1) Len Hutton (c)
2) Alastair Cook
3) David Gower
4) Kevin Pietersen
5) Joe Root
6) Ben Stokes
7) Ian Botham
8) Alan Knott +
9) Fred Trueman
10) Derek Underwood
11) James Anderson

7 Match Test Series : 3 Matches in England and 3 Matches in Australia and the Last Match will be played based on Who gains the Lead in the Series.
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I don't want to sound like Glenn McGrath but I'm predicting 7-0. Hutton (for Hayden) and Trueman (for Cummins) would be the only 2 England players in a combined XI. Either Hutton or Border would be captain.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

International Captain
CricketFan90s said:
not really they dominated Australia for a while in 70s and 80s. they indeed produced quality players. just you are trying to overrate all old players. West Indies domination is different from England's.

David Gower was the Best Batsmen of England in 1980s
Kevin Pietersen was the Best Middle order batsmen for England in 2000s

Both had the Experience of facing the Best Teams in Cricket History 80s WI and 2000s Australia.
Click to expand...
Let's disagree then. Barrington averages close to 60 in close to 90 matches.... That too big of a statistical advantage to overlook for two mid 40s averaging, mildly overrated (massively by English media) modern players. Root, Stokes and even Cook is fine, but saying I am overrating older players, who actually played in teams that dominated and won series; over players who played in pretty mediocre teams.... Yeah, something isn't fitting.
 
CricketFan90s

CricketFan90s

State Vice-Captain
capt_Luffy said:
Let's disagree then. Barrington averages close to 60 in close to 90 matches.... That too big of a statistical advantage to overlook for two mid 40s averaging, mildly overrated (massively by English media) modern players. Root, Stokes and even Cook is fine, but saying I am overrating older players, who actually played in teams that dominated and won series; over players who played in pretty mediocre teams.... Yeah, something isn't fitting.
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What I am saying is that in an all time XI you just don’t go by mere averages. Quality of the opposition, how good a particular batsmen was in his era compared to his other players from the team. Just because a bunch of players have an average of 60 from 1910s we don’t include all of them in an All time XI. Gower and Pietersen can be rated highly as they played the best teams in cricket History. They were best batsmen of their era representing England.
 
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A

AndrewB

International Vice-Captain
peterhrt said:
Interesting point. It was around fifty years ago that the build-up to the Centenary Test sparked reminiscence, comparisons and all-time England teams. A rough consensus of those teams looked something like this: Grace*, Hobbs, Hammond, Compton (or Hutton at No.3), Woolley, Ames or Evans, Hirst or Tate, Rhodes, Larwood, Laker, Barnes.
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The ones picking Evans I assume had Hirst batting at 6, but that still seems a very long tail for an all-time XI; especially when you have Grace, Hammond and Woolley (and Compton) in the top 5 who could all bowl.
 
CricketFan90s

CricketFan90s

State Vice-Captain
CricketFan90s said:
Dream Ashes Series Who Will Win ?
(Only included Players Younger than Don Bradman)
Australia XI
1) Bob Simpson
2) Matthew Hayden
3) Ricky Ponting (c)
4) Steve Smith
5) Greg Chappell
6) Allan Border
7) Adam Gilchrist +
8) Shane Warne
9) Pat Cummins
10) Dennis Lillee
11) Glenn McGrath

England XI
1) Len Hutton (c)
2) Alastair Cook
3) David Gower
4) Kevin Pietersen
5) Joe Root
6) Ben Stokes
7) Ian Botham
8) Alan Knott +
9) Fred Trueman
10) Derek Underwood
11) James Anderson

7 Match Test Series : 3 Matches in England and 3 Matches in Australia and the Last Match will be played based on Who gains the Lead in the Series.
Click to expand...
As Australia has gone with 7 Batmsen and 4 Bowlers. To counter it England has 8 Batsmen and 5 Bowlers so it will be an interesting contest. 7-0 prediction is quite foolish in my opinion. This England side will make Australia sweat.
 
Coronis

Coronis

International Coach
CricketFan90s said:
not really they dominated Australia for a while in 70s and 80s. they indeed produced quality players. just you are trying to overrate all old players. West Indies domination is different from England's.

David Gower was the Best Batsmen of England in 1980s
Kevin Pietersen was the Best Middle order batsmen for England in 2000s

Both had the Experience of facing the Best Teams in Cricket History 80s WI and 2000s Australia.
Click to expand...
Yeah cos Australia was at the peak of its powers in the 80’s. Plus 70’s - WSC players..

Actually you are underrating older players and ignore their accomplishments, this is quite noticeable in your XI’s.

Just because they were the best English bats at the time doesn’t mean much if the others weren’t great.

Is David Warner a better opener than Bill Lawry or Justin Langer just because he was the best Aussie opener of the 2010’s?

Is Nathan Lyon a better spinner than Clarrie Grimmett just because he was the best Aussie spinner of the 2010’s?

Is Graham McKenzie a better pacer than Jason Gillespie just because he was the best Aussie pacer of the 1960’s?
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

International Captain
CricketFan90s said:
What I am saying is that in an all time XI you just don’t go by mere averages. Quality of the opposition, how good a particular batsmen was in his era compared to his other players from the team. Just because a bunch of players have an average of 60 from 1910s we don’t include all of them in an All time XI. Gower and Pietersen can be rated highly as they played the best teams in cricket History. They were best batsmen of their era representing England.
Click to expand...
Lol.
 
CricketFan90s

CricketFan90s

State Vice-Captain
Coronis said:
Yeah cos Australia was at the peak of its powers in the 80’s. Plus 70’s - WSC players..

Actually you are underrating older players and ignore their accomplishments, this is quite noticeable in your XI’s.

Just because they were the best English bats at the time doesn’t mean much if the others weren’t great.

Is Warner a better opener than Lawry or Langer just because he was the best Aussie opener of the 2010’s?

Is Nathan Lyon a better spinner than Clarrie Grimmett?

Is Graham McKenzie a better pacer than Jason Gillespie?
Click to expand...
Coronis said:
Yeah cos Australia was at the peak of its powers in the 80’s. Plus 70’s - WSC players..

Actually you are underrating older players and ignore their accomplishments, this is quite noticeable in your XI’s.

Just because they were the best English bats at the time doesn’t mean much if the others weren’t great.

Is David Warner a better opener than Bill Lawry or Justin Langer just because he was the best Aussie opener of the 2010’s?

Is Nathan Lyon a better spinner than Clarrie Grimmett just because he was the best Aussie spinner of the 2010’s?

Is Graham McKenzie a better pacer than Jason Gillespie just because he was the best Aussie pacer of the 1960’s?
Click to expand...
check the ashes history from 1977-1987. 10 Years is a long period.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

International Captain
CricketFan90s said:
Discussion has to be open minded. As you are a global moderator try to provide better logic of why it’s not the right team ?
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Okay, I would just like to say based on your point on 1910s batsmen averaging 60s....There is no such player. Pre WWI era was horrible for batsmen, by horrible I mean really horrible. Legends like Trumper averages sub 40. In such circumstances, only one player averages close to 60, Sir Jack Hobbs, and he very well makes most World AT teams and has a very strong case, to be the best batsman after Sir Don.
 
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