The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[CricketFan90s]

AV Bedser (ENG)

1946-1949

23

41

7548

-

231

2959

89

7/49

33.24

2.35

84.80

8

2

 

[CricketFan90s]

Was that because he was fighting in WW2 the first 5 Years 1940-45?

He started playing from 1946. Don’t know if ww2 had an impact on him ?

 

[Qlder]

He started playing from 1946. Don’t know if ww2 had an impact on him ?

You said he was an average bowler in the 1940's. More than half of that was taken up by war

 

[CricketFan90s]

You said he was an average bowler in the 1940's. More than half of that was taken up by war

He had a very bad 3 years - 1947, 1948 and 1949. Flat pitches and strong Australian team are the reasons. I see even South Africa hit him badly in these 3 years.

 

[CricketFan90s]

You said he was an average bowler in the 1940's. More than half of that was taken up by war

All players started playing from 1946. So we address it as 1940s.

 

[kyear2]

He had a very bad 3 years - 1947, 1948 and 1949. Flat pitches and strong Australian team are the reasons. I see even South Africa hit him badly in these 3 years.

Those pitches were beyond dead and probably the worst in the history of the game.

 

[CricketFan90s]

Those pitches were beyond dead and probably the worst in the history of the game.

But how did Ray Lindwall had a decent record in those years ?

 

[kyear2]

But how did Ray Lindwall had a decent record in those years ?

His strike rate was never exemplary and he played more years in his career in the 50's than the 40's

 

[Coronis]

But how did Ray Lindwall had a decent record in those years ?

Not just Lindwall, bowling was dominated by Aussies in the 40’s.

Lindwall 70 @ 19.17 (19.93 vs Eng)
Johnston 54 @ 18.51 (23.33 vs Eng)
Miller 48 @ 21.41 (21.89 vs Eng)
Toshack 47 @ 21.04 (28.60 vs Eng)

Other sub 30 bowlers in the 40’s (min 20 wickets)
McCool (AUS) 30 @ 27.23
Cowie (NZ) 26 @ 22.03
Jones (WI) 21 @ 26.76

 

[Coronis]

His strike rate was never exemplary and he played more years in his career in the 50's than the 40's

That’s not the discussion lol. You’re trying to excuse Bedser’s 40’s record by saying that all the 40’s pitches were horribly flat, yet Lindwall (and also guys like Miller and Johnston) have great records in the 40’s, which doesn’t match up.

You’re talking about the pitches of the 40’s, that has nothing to do with the later careers of the blokes.

 

[CricketFan90s]

Ray Lindwall

Year 1946	2	3	198	52	2	1/13	2/29	26.00	1.57	99.0	0	0
Year 1947	5	10	1144	417	24	7/63	9/109	17.37	2.18	47.6	1	0
Year 1948	8	15	1982	761	39	7/38	9/70	19.51	2.30	50.8	3	0
Year 1949	2	4	364	112	5	5/32	5/65	22.40	1.84	72.8	1	0

Alec Bedser

Year 1946	5	7	1562	610	27	7/49	11/93	22.59	2.34	57.8	2	2
Year 1947	6	11	2176	892	21	4/95	6/275	42.47	2.45	103.6	0	0
Year 1948	7	13	2212	871	26	4/39	6/90	33.50	2.36	85.0	0	0
Year 1949	5	10	1598	586	15	4/61	7/133	39.06	2.20	106.5	0	0

 

[trundler]

England were a lot worse than Australia in that period and continued to be for a while into the 50s. Simples.

 

[CricketFan90s]

His strike rate was never exemplary and he played more years in his career in the 50's than the 40's

Top 2 Wicket Takers of 1940s

AV Bedser (ENG)	1946-1949	23	41	7548	-	231	2959	89	7/49	33.24	2.35	84.80	8	2
RR Lindwall (AUS)	1946-1950	17	32	3688	-	110	1342	70	7/38	19.17	2.18	52.68	2	5

Only 9 Innings he played less compared to Alec Bedser but however Bedser bowled an average of 31 Overs per innings and Lindwall bowled 19 Overs per Innings. So it shows How England was relying too much on Bedser.

 

[CricketFan90s]

Top 5 Fast Bowlers of 1950s

JB Statham (ENG)

1951-1959

47

87

9995

-

379

3737

159

7/39

23.50

2.24

62.86

7

5

RR Lindwall (AUS)

1950-1959

42

77

9470

-

286

3687

152

7/43

24.25

2.33

62.30

6

7

AV Bedser (ENG)

1950-1955

28

51

8370

-

343

2917

147

7/44

19.84

2.09

56.93

3

13

FS Trueman (ENG)

1952-1959

31

60

6200

-

232

2685

128

8/31

20.97

2.59

48.43

9

5

Fazal Mahmood (PAK)

1952-1959

26

43

7815

1302.3

452

2765

125

7/42

22.12

2.12

62.52

6

12

This was the reason England had Hat-trick Ashes Series Victories in 1950s.

Bedser was a Work Horse that is the reason why Don Bradman took him in his All Time XI. Bedser bowled 29 Overs per Innings in his entire career (thats too much of workload on a single bowler) . So he is a good option in All Time England XI if they want to go with 4 bowlers and 7 batsmen in their team.

 

[trundler]

Top 5 Fast Bowlers of 1950s

JB Statham (ENG)

1951-1959

47

87

9995

-

379

3737

159

7/39

23.50

2.24

62.86

7

5

RR Lindwall (AUS)

1950-1959

42

77

9470

-

286

3687

152

7/43

24.25

2.33

62.30

6

7

AV Bedser (ENG)

1950-1955

28

51

8370

-

343

2917

147

7/44

19.84

2.09

56.93

3

13

FS Trueman (ENG)

1952-1959

31

60

6200

-

232

2685

128

8/31

20.97

2.59

48.43

9

5

Fazal Mahmood (PAK)

1952-1959

26

43

7815

1302.3

452

2765

125

7/42

22.12

2.12

62.52

6

12

This was the reason England had Hat-trick Ashes Series Victories in 1950s. Bedser got more support in 1950s from Statham and Trueman, so may be that could have been one of the reason he played better in this decade.

Bedser was a Work Horse that is the reason why Don Bradman took him in his All Time XI. Bedser bowled 29 Overs per Innings in his entire career. So he is a good option in All Time England XI of they want to go with 4 bowlers and 7 batsmen in their team.

Bedser retired in 1955. He barely played with Statham or Trueman. The 3 of them played 0 tests together.

 

[CricketFan90s]

Bedser retired in 1955. He barely played with Statham or Trueman.

have to agree with you. he did'nt get any support. So he was lone horse in english Team. 1953 Ashes he played hugh role in Englands victory. 1955 it was frank tyson.
It Looks like Lindwall had more support from other bowlers which alec Bedser was lacking through out his career.

 

[peterhrt]

As deliberate policy, pitches in England and Australia started favouring bowlers from the 1950-51 Australian season. Bedser, aged 32, suddenly found regular purchase for his leg-cutter and his bowling was transformed, having previously been a steady inswing stock bowler. He remains the only bowler to take 30 wickets in Ashes series both home and away.

It would have been interesting to see him on the docile West Indian wickets of 1954, but England decided he needed a rest and left him at home.

 

[CricketFan90s]

As deliberate policy, pitches in England and Australia started favouring bowlers from the 1950-51 Australian season. Bedser, aged 32, suddenly found regular purchase for his leg-cutter and his bowling was transformed, having previously been a steady inswing stock bowler. He remains the only bowler to take 30 wickets in Ashes series both home and away.

It would have been interesting to see him on the docile West Indian wickets of 1954, but England decided he needed a rest and left him at home.

looks like he is not good on flat pitches. As Lindwall maintained more consistent record.

 

[peterhrt]

looks like he is not good on flat pitches. As Lindwall maintained more consistent record.

Lindwall was a lot faster with a nasty skidding bouncer and late outswing. After suffering from dropped slip catches, he developed an inswinger as well and was basically equipped for all surfaces. He didn't enjoy bowling long spells. Nor did Miller.

Bedser thrived on hard work and was very accurate. After his transformation in 1950-51, he produced several good performances on true pitches as well as on more helpful ones. As you say, over their entire careers Lindwall was more consistently successful.

 

[kyear2]

That’s not the discussion lol. You’re trying to excuse Bedser’s 40’s record by saying that all the 40’s pitches were horribly flat, yet Lindwall (and also guys like Miller and Johnston) have great records in the 40’s, which doesn’t match up.

You’re talking about the pitches of the 40’s, that has nothing to do with the later careers of the blokes.

I wasn't trying to excuse Bedser's record, I was literally just saying that pitches in the 40's were flat, as they were pre war.

No agenda behind it.