dude the reason why i even left this thread was because you were taking the responses here too personally with your beliefs, my comment was to question if this was even a known publication since i’ve never heard of it but maybe another Indian did since this country is vast? it was also because some who brought in links to more reputable publications that called certain players greats and atgs were mocked a few weeks ago for posting drivel even if the content they posted was decent
as to the article, i watched that test series written and slip fielding was shoddy on both sides, however i would never claim that England won due to that or India lost due to it, that was clear to anyone watching the series. on the other hand if India had 1 more person holding up one end with the bat at Edgbaston to support Kohli they would have won the test, likewise England’s entire series win was down to Sam Curran making vital lower order contributions and picking up crucial wickets, you’ve been arguing mercilessly against the latter. India’s only win in that series? it was because a bowling all rounder turned the test around with a flurry of wickets, another thing you dismissed as being overrated
this is the sort of context that you’re either consciously or unconsciously omitting in all of your posts here, i choose to believe its the latter because i doubt you watched a modern series that didnt involve a team you support or remember it when it was a few years ago
i pulled up similar context omission with you excluding the Indian team few years ago in your list, i even specifically mentioned them as “the next best team of their times” to make it clear i wasnt stating they were an atg team in the context of others included there since that wasnt a discussion relevant here but you diverted that and claimed they werent on the same level as others when that wasnt even my point. the point was that the 4th-6th best test team since the 80s depending on how you slice the teams and rate them did have a bowling all rounder, 2 of them infact and they owed their success to a large part down to that flexibility
your entire slip catching not even fielding as a whole is nearly as vital as batting or bowling premise is based on 3 great teams that you saw having strong slip cordons, its not an invalid argument by any means but others have brought up better arguments as to why you may be overrating them but you’re failing to engage with that. you cant really be surprised that your opinion is unpopular in your own thread after that and its exacerbated by you making it personal and doing random driveby insults now at whoever is in the vicinity
I understood you question and your point, and agree. I was just saying that publication aside, some good points were made. And yes, I see them, you would be how many all time teams Jimmy seems to make nowadays. Jimmy, Sehwag, etc...
The second post wasn't aimed at you, and I took it personally because that was the intent of a few of the replies. If someone goes after a player I like, I make my points move on, some take the other route.
Re lower order batting, I've never said it wasn't important. I've said the way it's discussed here it's in par with top order batting and the impact has been over inflated to a certain point. The way it's phrased is that it saves every match and it's impossible to win without one. I've never said that in the right circumstances that wouldn't help or improve a team.
Yes the Indian team was next, it's also very different. Don't want to start a second war, but when I said it wasn't up to the same level of the other two, it's because every argument about the team comes with the proviso of "at home". Bumrah makes a difference though. And yes, that cordon does make a difference when they travel.
But no, I didn't dismiss lower order batting, carless argue relentlessly against it, part of the argument is that it's just as important as any other secondary / utility skills. A team needs as many ways to win / survive as possible.
My argument came in the form as to when is it viable to sacrifice bowling for it.... and just as often than not, lower order resistance doesn't always come from the "all rounders". I've also always said, if you're relying on to consistently to bail you out or as a huge part of your run production, you have bigger issues, and that's also true. But all teams need the assist from time to time.
I want to phrase the carefully. Yes I may have gone too far, and yes it was in response to statements that also went too far. No i don't think they are the irreplaceable magic elixir that's required for every team and you can't win without them, but I do believe that they definitely have value.
Finally, I don't recall any counter arguments to the importance of a good cordon besides the statement that I was lying somehow. If your attack is built around great pacers, you need to take the chances offered. If you don't you're missing priceless opportunities to take wickets, bowl out teams and win matches.
Yes it's long, but wanted to reply to you questions and points. If I've missed any, you can let me know.
