Virat Kohli vs AB de Villiers (ODIs)

[Fuller Pilch]

Starc
Johnson
Lee
Cummins
Malinga
Amir
Boult
Southee
Henry
Archer

Might be missing a few, but they are probably some the best pacers both played against. You could also add for Kohli:

Steyn
Morkel
Rabada

And for ABD (not including older bowlers) :

Bumrah
Shami
Bhuvaneshwar

Kyle Mills instead of Southee. Was much better.

 

[blackdevil95]

Starc
Johnson
Lee
Cummins
Malinga
Amir
Boult
Southee
Henry
Archer

Might be missing a few, but they are probably some the best pacers both played against. You could also add for Kohli:

Steyn
Morkel
Rabada

And for ABD (not including older bowlers) :

Bumrah
Shami
Bhuvaneshwar

For the above bowlers list excluding SA and Indian bowlers, AB averages 52 with a strike rate of 110+ in SENA and Kohli averages 35 with a strike rate of 99.5 in SENA. Kohli has exceptional records against Malinga only. If Malinga excluded, his averages drops to 24.5 with a strike rate of 87.5.

 

[Socerer 01]

ftr i consider AB > Kohli in odis by a small margin but idk if this is a good metric to use for proving that

 

[blackdevil95]

is this the latest feather in the cap of checklist analysis?

It's a must one. Anyone can have great stats facing the weaker bowlers.

 

[blackdevil95]

ftr i consider AB > Kohli in odis by a small margin but idk if this is a good metric to use for proving that

My point is not to degrade Kohli. I am saying AB is no lesser than him in ODIs.

 

[Socerer 01]

It's a must one. Anyone can have great stats facing the weaker bowlers.

this isnt really that common tbh

 

[blackdevil95]

Just go to statsguru, take bowlers across nations who averages less than 30 or around in the period of AB and Kohli. Check the stats of both against them. AB has better stats. And if you name 10 good bowlers Kohli faced, I will name 15 good bowlers AB faced. AB has faced more number of bowlers throughout his career.

 

[Socerer 01]

Just go to statsguru, take bowlers across nations who averages less than 30 or around in the period of AB and Kohli. Check the stats of both against them. AB has better stats. And if you name 10 good bowlers Kohli faced, I will name 15 good bowlers AB faced. AB has faced more number of bowlers throughout his career.

ok i hear u

counterpoint

ftr i consider AB > Kohli in odis

 

[capt_Luffy]

Just go to statsguru, take bowlers across nations who averages less than 30 or around in the period of AB and Kohli. Check the stats of both against them. AB has better stats. And if you name 10 good bowlers Kohli faced, I will name 15 good bowlers AB faced. AB has faced more number of bowlers throughout his career.

ABD's record in Champions Trophies is very poor; and Kohli still has a better record in the WC, with a Man of the Series, a Winners medal and a runners medal.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

For the above bowlers list excluding SA and Indian bowlers, AB averages 52 with a strike rate of 110+ in SENA and Kohli averages 35 with a strike rate of 99.5 in SENA. Kohli has exceptional records against Malinga only. If Malinga excluded, his averages drops to 24.5 with a strike rate of 87.5.

dont exclude SA bowlers for Kohli, he has done fantastically against them, he averages 75 odd in SA. This is a massive disadvantage to him

 

[capt_Luffy]

dont exclude SA bowlers for Kohli, he has done fantastically against them, he averages 75 odd in SA. This is a massive disadvantage to him

I stats guru those bowlers I listed and de Villiers do averages some 10 runs more BUT that is widely boosted by having more not outs and Kohli has a slightly higher RPI.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Also all Indian pitches arent flat, Kohli was brilliant against Cummins, Starc and Co in league Match in this WC chennai, against Boult and Co in Dharamshala, ans good against Aus in final

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Also all Indian pitches arent flat, Kohli was brilliant against Cummins, Starc and Co in league Match in this WC chennai, against Boult and Co in Dharamshala, ans good against Aus in final

Also Kolkata against Sa, and NZ in SF(which was kind of a flat track tho)

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

My point is not to degrade Kohli. I am saying AB is no lesser than him in ODIs.

And I agree, AB and Kohli are along Sachin and Viv in the top tier. But Kohli’s WC man of the series tilts it towards him

 

[blackdevil95]

ABD's record in Champions Trophies is very poor; and Kohli still has a better record in the WC, with a Man of the Series, a Winners medal and a runners medal.

Kohli has only one better world Cup than AB. And that's 2023 because of home pitches. He has poor ICC series outside sub continent. And even in 2023 WC, he was just an anchor, played much lesser strike rate than team's strike rate.

He was rarely a genuine match winner in ICC ODI events. I won't let stats fool me.

Even in chasing, Kohli averages 52 vs Top 7 teams in ICC ODI events with a strike rate of 78. AB averages 60 with a strike rate of 100 in ICC ODI events while chasing.

In 300+ chases, Kohli averages some what around 26 with a strike rate of 78 in 4 innings. AB averages 50 in 5 inns with a strike rate of 98.


In ICC ODI knockouts including WC and CT, AB averages 40.2 against Kohli's 38.5.
Even in that, he scored 58 not out in CT 2013 while chasing 180 coming at 77-1. Excluding it, Kohli average drops to 34. AB never came in such easy situation to boost his average. So don't fool me with stats.


54 vs SL 2006 CT. The only half centurion in the tough wicket. Against Vaas, Muralidharan, Jayasurya.

46 vs WI in 2006 CT semifinal coming at 90/3. He got run out by the partner.

92 off 70 vs Australia in 2007 WC while chasing 360+ against Bracken, McGrath.

146 vs WI in 2007 WC by opening the innings at their own backyard.

70 vs NZ 2009 CT while chasing 220. He was the only half centurion against the likes of Shane Bond.

52 off 39 vs Ind while chasing 295+ in 2011 WC. He came to bat when req run rate was 7.5+. He turned the momentum to SA.


107 vs WI while chasing 230 in 2011 WC. He came at 20/2.

70 off 70 vs Inw 2013 CT while chasing 330.

77 vs Pak 2015 WC chasing 210. He was the only half centurion in the batting collapse.

65 off 45 vs NZ in Semifinal when the run rate was below 4.5


Virat doesn't have these many clutch innings in ICC odi events. Other batsmen had already done half the job.

I am not a blind believer of stats.

In case of VK,

79 vs WI 2009 CT chasing 170 something
43 in CT 2013 final
95 vs NZ 2023 WC
72 vs WI in 2019 WC
54 vs Aus 2023 WC
85 vs Aus 2023 WC

I don't remember any of other great knocks of VK.

AB was the best batsman in ICC events for SA at his times. Dhawan, Rohit were better than Kohli.

 

[blackdevil95]

I stats guru those bowlers I listed and de Villiers do averages some 10 runs more BUT that is widely boosted by having more not outs and Kohli has a slightly higher RPI.

Statsguru gives average of the innings the bowlers played not against the particular bowlers. Check cric metric.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Statsguru gives average of the innings the bowlers played not against the particular bowlers. Check cric metric.

Without including Amir, whom ABD never faced;

ABD - 552 @69
VK - 1094 @64.4

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Kohli has only one better world Cup than AB. And that's 2023 because of home pitches. He has poor ICC series outside sub continent. And even in 2023 WC, he was just an anchor, played much lesser strike rate than team's strike rate.

He was rarely a genuine match winner in ICC ODI events. I won't let stats fool me.

Even in chasing, Kohli averages 52 vs Top 7 teams in ICC ODI events with a strike rate of 78. AB averages 60 with a strike rate of 100 in ICC ODI events while chasing.

In 300+ chases, Kohli averages some what around 26 with a strike rate of 78 in 4 innings. AB averages 50 in 5 inns with a strike rate of 98.


In ICC ODI knockouts including WC and CT, AB averages 40.2 against Kohli's 38.5.
Even in that, he scored 58 not out in CT 2013 while chasing 180 coming at 77-1. Excluding it, Kohli average drops to 34. AB never came in such easy situation to boost his average. So don't fool me with stats.


54 vs SL 2006 CT. The only half centurion in the tough wicket. Against Vaas, Muralidharan, Jayasurya.

46 vs WI in 2006 CT semifinal coming at 90/3. He got run out by the partner.

92 off 70 vs Australia in 2007 WC while chasing 360+ against Bracken, McGrath.

146 vs WI in 2007 WC by opening the innings at their own backyard.

70 vs NZ 2009 CT while chasing 220. He was the only half centurion against the likes of Shane Bond.

52 off 39 vs Ind while chasing 295+ in 2011 WC. He came to bat when req run rate was 7.5+. He turned the momentum to SA.


107 vs WI while chasing 230 in 2011 WC. He came at 20/2.

70 off 70 vs Inw 2013 CT while chasing 330.

77 vs Pak 2015 WC chasing 210. He was the only half centurion in the batting collapse.

65 off 45 vs NZ in Semifinal when the run rate was below 4.5


Virat doesn't have these many clutch innings in ICC odi events. Other batsmen had already done half the job.

I am not a blind believer of stats.

In case of VK,

79 vs WI 2009 CT chasing 170 something
43 in CT 2013 final
95 vs NZ 2023 WC
72 vs WI in 2019 WC
54 vs Aus 2023 WC
85 vs Aus 2023 WC

I don't remember any of other great knocks of VK.

AB was the best batsman in ICC events for SA at his times. Dhawan, Rohit were better than Kohli.

Kohli scored around 440 runs in ICC WC 2019, at a 50+ average. Not poor by any standard. Plus you forget Kohli’s SF hundred, his 100 vs SA that held the innings together. Dhawan was overall not better than Kohli, cause of Kohli’s 2023 innings, and Kohli capitalised on tricky tracks like vs Aus, NZ, Sa. You underestimate him a lot. So overall Kohli has: a key knock in ICC 2011 final, vs Pak in 2015 league match, vs WI and Pak, Aus in WC 2019, vs Aus and NZ both games each, vs SA, hundred vs Bangladesh.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Kohli has only one better world Cup than AB. And that's 2023 because of home pitches. He has poor ICC series outside sub continent. And even in 2023 WC, he was just an anchor, played much lesser strike rate than team's strike rate.

He was rarely a genuine match winner in ICC ODI events. I won't let stats fool me.

Even in chasing, Kohli averages 52 vs Top 7 teams in ICC ODI events with a strike rate of 78. AB averages 60 with a strike rate of 100 in ICC ODI events while chasing.

In 300+ chases, Kohli averages some what around 26 with a strike rate of 78 in 4 innings. AB averages 50 in 5 inns with a strike rate of 98.


In ICC ODI knockouts including WC and CT, AB averages 40.2 against Kohli's 38.5.
Even in that, he scored 58 not out in CT 2013 while chasing 180 coming at 77-1. Excluding it, Kohli average drops to 34. AB never came in such easy situation to boost his average. So don't fool me with stats.


54 vs SL 2006 CT. The only half centurion in the tough wicket. Against Vaas, Muralidharan, Jayasurya.

46 vs WI in 2006 CT semifinal coming at 90/3. He got run out by the partner.

92 off 70 vs Australia in 2007 WC while chasing 360+ against Bracken, McGrath.

146 vs WI in 2007 WC by opening the innings at their own backyard.

70 vs NZ 2009 CT while chasing 220. He was the only half centurion against the likes of Shane Bond.

52 off 39 vs Ind while chasing 295+ in 2011 WC. He came to bat when req run rate was 7.5+. He turned the momentum to SA.


107 vs WI while chasing 230 in 2011 WC. He came at 20/2.

70 off 70 vs Inw 2013 CT while chasing 330.

77 vs Pak 2015 WC chasing 210. He was the only half centurion in the batting collapse.

65 off 45 vs NZ in Semifinal when the run rate was below 4.5


Virat doesn't have these many clutch innings in ICC odi events. Other batsmen had already done half the job.

I am not a blind believer of stats.

In case of VK,

79 vs WI 2009 CT chasing 170 something
43 in CT 2013 final
95 vs NZ 2023 WC
72 vs WI in 2019 WC
54 vs Aus 2023 WC
85 vs Aus 2023 WC

I don't remember any of other great knocks of VK.

AB was the best batsman in ICC events for SA at his times. Dhawan, Rohit were better than Kohli.

AB had good support in many of the above matches, Millers 48 of 18 was the key knock in NZ SF, in the WC 2011 chase vs Ind, Amla and Kallis contributed etc.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Virat had good knocks in the 2013 both knockouts