Was WI ATG team overhyped?

[Slifer]

Both Warne and Murali have won their Team many series in pak . They might average slightly more because they bowl more as you would expect from a spinner

Similarly in Eng and NZ , Warne and Murali have won their Teams many series

Warne also won his side many series in SA .
Warne and O’Reilly were absolute champs in AUS .
So except WI where both Warne/Murali struggle. I don’t see them doing worse than their pace counterparts. They might average more but they would also win you more Test single handedly as they take 5 wkt haul frequently.

England, WI, NZ, RSA, Australia and Pakistan. You're seriously telling me that you think an all spin attack would be more effective in those locals than an all pace attack? We'll have to agree to disagree because in no way shape or form would an all spin attack do better in any of those countries.

WI pace won series in all those places above. And Warne plus pace won in RSA. Fun fact Murali and Warne struggled in India as well. So if we loaded up a batting side with Indians and faced a spin attack in India maybe they aren't as effective?? I'm joking....

 

[smash84]

It's not. 3 series vs WI pace attacks '80, '86 and '90, PAK nor the WI ever posted a 400 run plus score. Both teams (WI and pak) bowled out for under 100 in 1986 on the back of pace. No spinner has a better record in Pakistan than Wasim, Imran, Marshall and Walsh. Remember, Pakistan do have there own share of pace bowlers that we can call upon.

So again, only in India and SL would a spin attack be more effective than a pace attack.

No, SL is not really a barren place for fast bowlers. Just look up the records of good fast bowlers there and you will be surprised.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

No, SL is not really a barren place for fast bowlers. Just look up the records of good fast bowlers there and you will be surprised.

Great place for swing bowlers. Young Boult and Southee moved it heaps there.

 

[Sunil1z]

England, WI, NZ, RSA, Australia and Pakistan. You're seriously telling me that you think an all spin attack would be more effective in those locals than an all pace attack? We'll have to agree to disagree because in no way shape or form would an all spin attack do better in any of those countries.

WI pace won series in all those places above. And Warne plus pace won in RSA. Fun fact Murali and Warne struggled in India as well. So if we loaded up a batting side with Indians and faced a spin attack in India maybe they aren't as effective?? I'm joking....

I think you have slightly misunderstood my point.
I am saying 4 spin bowling attack would also win in those places . They might average slightly more but they would get the job done .
This is another thing that Pace attack may win a 5 match Test series 3-0 and spin attack win it 3-1.

 

[Slifer]

No, SL is not really a barren place for fast bowlers. Just look up the records of good fast bowlers there and you will be surprised.

Oh yeah I completely agree. What mean is that fast bowlers would/could do well in SL and Ind but relative to the spinners, they'd probably do worse. Everywhere else, imo is the opposite is likely true.

Using two top of the tree spinner and pace bowlers: Marshall and Warne. Warne (not facing Indian batting) might do better than Marshall in India and SL but everywhere else, imo he sure as hell isn't.

 

[ma1978]

Sorry no one wins against the India AT XI in India. They’d give the current XI a fight is suppose but thrown in Sehwag and Tendulkar and it’s not close

 

[Sunil1z]

Sorry no one wins against the India AT XI in India. They’d give the current XI a fight is suppose but thrown in Sehwag and Tendulkar and it’s not close

I think both AUS and WI definitely have a chance. We start as 55-45 favourites against both. But we might edge it 2-1 .

 

[subshakerz]

I think both AUS and WI definitely have a chance. We start as 55-45 favourites against both. But we might edge it 2-1 .

As long as Aus have Bradman, nobody starts as favorites against them.

 

[Sunil1z]

As long as Aus have Bradman, nobody starts as favorites against them.

As long as India have Ashwin + Jadeja no one starts as favourite against us .

 

[Socerer 01]

I think both AUS and WI definitely have a chance. We start as 55-45 favourites against both. But we might edge it 2-1 .

this thread is going to turn into the third part of the how past teams would fare in unbeatable India thread, isnt it?

 

[Sunil1z]

this thread is going to turn into the third part of the how past teams would fare in unbeatable India thread, isnt it?

I think when we compare fast bowling vs Spin bowling IND , AUS and WI will definitely feature .

 

[subshakerz]

not sure why you’re overrating 80s Indian teams, the team in 2000 wasnt great either. besides Boje played a part in the 2nd test in all innings, not just the end. worth noting that SA also opted to debut Boje in this series rather than pick an extra pacer

The point is that Indía in 83, 2000 and 2004/5 had good batting lineups that were trumped by foreign pace attacks.

so the conclusion is that you need a top 3 pacer of all time, an atg spinner for support backed by the strongest batting lineup at that time, an atvg pacer having a great series with the opponent’s best batsman playing half of the series being in **** form

No, high class pace combos with strong support are the key to success in India. Windies quartet, Donald/Pollock and McGrath/Gillespie show this.

 

[smash84]

As long as Aus have Bradman, nobody starts as favorites against them.

This is true. They have friggin Bradman. It's like the game is already rigged against you. And on top of that there's Gilchrist as well to further add misery on the opposition.

 

[Socerer 01]

As long as India have Ashwin + Jadeja no one starts as favourite against us .

this board doesnt realise how much of a cheat code they are and its always hilarious. the argument against them everytime is some variation of “well X spinner who was a noob picked up wickets in this 1 innings so surely they’re just pitch haxx” without fully looking at how said noobs fared in the rest of the series while Ashwin and Jadeja made you look like fools with the bat

and this is before they even bat themselves and add runs on their own. ffs we could afford to play a specialist keeper in the 21st century when that role is dead in international cricket who could barely bat because Ashwin and Jadeja existed, no other team could do that or has done that when having better batsmen who could keep

 

[subshakerz]

As long as India have Ashwin + Jadeja no one starts as favourite against us .

Let's not rehash that debate.

Let us agree that WI/Aus bowling will do well against Indian batting and Indian bowling will be a big challenge for their respective batting units.

If we can agree to the above, then I don't mind disagreeing to who we think wins. My only contention is this thread is the idea that pure pace attacks can't do well in India.

 

[Sunil1z]

This is true. They have friggin Bradman. It's like the game is already rigged against you. And on top of that there's Gilchrist as well to further add misery on the opposition.

Gilchrist averaged 27 in IND . Forget Pant , even Dhoni is better than Gilly in IND .

 

[Socerer 01]

The point is that Indía in 83, 2000 and 2004/5 had good batting lineups that were trumped by foreign pace attacks.


No, high class pace combos with strong support are the key to success in India. Windies quartet, Donald/Pollock and McGrath/Gillespie show this.

India in 83 and 2000 did not have strong batting lineups

unless you think a lineup featuring Jaffer and opener Laxman are strong

 

[Sunil1z]

Let's not rehash that debate.

Let us agree that WI/Aus bowling will do well against Indian batting and Indian bowling will be a big challenge for their respective batting units.

If we can agree to the above, then I don't mind disagreeing to who we think wins. My only contention is this thread is the idea that pure pace attacks can't do well in India.

As long you agree that ATG spin attacks can win series in SENA countries I have no trouble in accepting that ATG pace attack can win in IND . This was the sole purpose of starting this thread

 

[Sunil1z]

India in 83 and 2000 did not have strong batting lineups

unless you think a lineup featuring Jaffer and opener Laxman are strong

Nah our batting line up was very good . Lets not forget that We beat both AUS and SA in 98 and 96 with similar batting line up.

Give credit to Donald + Pollock + Boje for neutralising our batting attack.

 

[subshakerz]

As long you agree that ATG spin attacks can win series in SENA countries I have no trouble in accepting that ATG pace attack can win in IND . This was the sole purpose of starting this thread

This has nothing to do with the thread topic. You derailed your own thread.