Strongest Bowling combination

[subshakerz]

Marshall 83- 89 calendar years, 54 tests 292 wickets 19.2 average. I don't think a run and a half in average is significant in relation to what you are losing on all the other measures. It's only just over 7 runs a match difference for Imran's WPM.

Dude of course that average difference matters because if we are talking about optimum bowling achievements, it gets incrementally more difficult to take a point off once you go sub-20 for a long stretch of time.

To average 19 is awesome but to average 17 odd for over 200 test wickets is simply historically phenomenal.

And this is if we accept a more longer idea of peak for bowlers. Others have used 27 or 33 tests and Imran is even more exceptional then.

 

[Bolo.]

Dude of course that average difference matters because if we are talking about optimum bowling achievements, it gets incrementally more difficult to take a point off once you go sub-20 for a long stretch of time.

To average 19 is awesome but to average 17 odd for over 200 test wickets is simply historically phenomenal.

And this is if we accept a more longer idea of peak for bowlers. Others have used 27 or 33 tests and Imran is even more exceptional then.

How much time you have spent arguing that measures like WPM are more important than just averages when comparing Imran to players like Ambrose? Where is your consistency?

I've already brought up Imran's quality over shorter timeframes. Not necessarily 27 or 33, cos that would probably include a stupid amount of missed tests, but that's not necessarily meaningful.

 

[subshakerz]

How much time you have spent arguing that measures like WPM are more important than just averages when comparing Imran to players like Ambrose? Where is your consistency?

I think you confused my argument. I docked points from Ambrose for having a low WPM in certain countries and having that presented as success but that doesn't mean I think once you cross a minimum threshold that WPM is a key distinguishing factor otherwise Hadlee would be top of all-time.

In this scenario, both Imran and Marshall are averaging minimum 5WPM. I think averaging 17 odd is a more exceptional achievement than a higher WPM.

I've already brought up Imran's quality over shorter timeframes. Not necessarily 27 or 33, cos that would probably include a stupid amount of missed tests, but that's not necessarily meaningful.

You could take a stretch of him in 28 tests from 1979 to 1983 where he didn't really miss tests and he still averages 16.5

All-round records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

 

[Bolo.]

I think you confused my argument. I docked points from Ambrose for having a low WPM in certain countries and having that presented as success but that doesn't mean I think once you cross a minimum threshold that WPM is a key distinguishing factor otherwise Hadlee would be top of all-time.

In this scenario, both Imran and Marshall are averaging minimum 5WPM. I think averaging 17 odd is a more exceptional achievement than a higher WPM.


You could take a stretch of him in 28 tests from 1979 to 1983 where he didn't really miss tests and he still averages 16.5

All-round records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

You have made this argument.

And you have made the WPM in relation to Ambrose and others. And many times you have accused other posters of not looking beyond averages, when they were looking at much higher differences than a run or two. Not just for Imran either.

You are comparing 2 streches of Imran taking less than 5 to Marshall taking 5.4 over more matches. You can probably get Marshall close to 6WPM if you went down to a number like 28 tests, despite competition.

 

[subshakerz]

You have made this argument.

And you have made the WPM in relation to Ambrose and others. And many times you have accused other posters of not looking beyond averages, when they were looking at much higher differences than a run or two. Not just for Imran either.

I never said ignore average but my modus operandi is to look at factors like series breakdown and WPM too.

However am average like 17 is contesting with pre war bowlers and stands out and there aren't issues here with series breakdown or WPM since he succeeded at home and away.

You are comparing 2 streches of Imran taking less than 5 to Marshall taking 5.4 over more matches. You can probably get Marshall close to 6WPM if you went down to a number like 28 tests, despite competition.

Again it depends when you want to start it but Imran (excluding the two tests in the middle in 85 in Aus when he was playing as a pure bat) was at 5 WPM overall in that period.

But a short span would have a higher average difference but better WPM for Marshall true. I think both are great achievements but average to me is more impressive.

Lets agree here that their two respective peaks are the greatest of all pacers, followed by Waqar.

 

[shortpitched713]

Without having the albatross of previous anti average comparison positions around my neck, I can say that to me an average under 16, versus Malcolm Marshall's over 17 (over 33 Tests, constitutes a big enough difference to put Imran's peak over Marshall's, regardless of WPM or SR.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Imran was injured for two years in between for his shin. But outside that period was largely quite fit.

Peak Imran and Marshall ahead of Peak Waqar for me due to the former’s absurd numbers and the latters all conditions performances and crazy WPM considering the competition he faced