So in India an ATG pace bowler gets dropped. Wow.
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Is Ravindra Jadeja an ATG test bowler?
- Thread starter Shri
- Start date
OverratedSanity
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Talk about taking an axe to your own dumb argument.
PlayerComparisons
International Vice-Captain
Nah subs doesn’t rate holding and garner as ATGs lmao
then his view on cricket is even more ridiculous than I previously thought
ok say it’s Marshall, Ambrose and Hadlee along with Ashwin, Jadeja and Yadav
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Haha I was waiting for this.
Precisely right. Holding and Garner are not ATGs by my standards. I've always maintained this btw. They are close tho.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Instead of spending all this mental energy on hypotheticals that won't happen, give me a real case scenario of a bonafide ATG in their prime being benched.
it’s not a hypothetical, the Indian pace attack in aggregate has been performing at a level only matched by the West Indian greats. It’s unprecedented.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Two things; Jadeja being an ATG bowler is close to ridiculous; I don't think he cracks my Top 15 spinners.
And that, "An ATG can't be dropped" is a stupid notion. Had Warne and Murali played for the same team, I want to see how many matches they would had played in Australia.
Also, Subs rating Lillee an ATG despite performing in that level only vs 1 team; and not Garner and Holding is...... Interesting given they aren't Indian spinners.
And that, "An ATG can't be dropped" is a stupid notion. Had Warne and Murali played for the same team, I want to see how many matches they would had played in Australia.
Also, Subs rating Lillee an ATG despite performing in that level only vs 1 team; and not Garner and Holding is...... Interesting given they aren't Indian spinners.
and to answer your question without really thinking about it, Shane Warne in 1999
PlayerComparisons
International Vice-Captain
Surely Brett lee gets dropped for Warne/Murali
OverratedSanity
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They'd both occasionally get left out
"Damn, Warne got dropped for Murali. Warne sucks"
"Damn, Murali got dropped for Warne. Murali sucks"
Both end up not ATGs. We are thus left with zero ATG spinners in the history of cricket.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Agreed.
Highly likely they would have both played in most if not all countries. But again, we don't have to bother with these hypotheticals since an ATG spinner is super super rare, hence dropping them is unthinkable. Let's deal with the real world pls.
Likely Garner and Holding were roughly as good as Lillee but I have a minimum 300 wicket or so output cutoff to qualify as a modern ATG pacer.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
You mean when Waugh the captain decided that Warne hadn't fully recovered from his shoulder injury and selfishly forced himself in the team? That ain't a normal case, you know that.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
You consider Fred Trueman an ATG right?? He used to be dropped pretty often.
it was plenty controversial at the time, hardly open and shiut
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
The captain himself explained his reasoning. It had to do with fitness.
kyear2
International Coach
That's not the scenario India is faced with, you're taking about 3 top 12 pacers of all time..
This is totally irrelevant
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
What were the circumstances? And are they comparable to Ashwin getting dropped for Jadeja for an entire English tour?
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Depends. To an extent they were comparable. With Laker, Lock, Wardle, Bedser, Statham, Tyson, Appleyard, Farnes, Bailey, etc.; England kinda had a surplus of bowlers. He played only around 60% of all the Tests England played between his debut and retirement. It also had to do with that the selectors didn't liked him much as he was a little pricky.
Also, you used to consider Laker an ATG. He was dropped even more often, and he wasn't even a prick.