Steve Waugh vs Ricky Ponting in Tests?

[centurymaker]

Ponting also played in an easier era, in a mean stronger batting team and Waugh did levels better away against the 4 best teams of his time; West Indies, South Africa, India and England. I just have a feeling in this discussion that I am missing something in favour of Ponting except aggression, that's the reason I keep on replying.....

5 best teams were WI, Aus, SA, Pak and then India.

And England were relatively terrible during Waugh's career.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Waugh's record vs WI when they had good attacks is fine, not close to as spectacular as is made out to be.

 

[trundler]

One crucial point that's being overlooked is that batting 3 in pace friendly conditions is orders of magnitude harder than batting 5/6. Sehwag managed a ton in SA batting 6. Comparing their records in England is pretty meaningless based on that and the fact that Ponting faced much better bowling there.

 

[OverratedSanity]

One crucial point that's being overlooked is that batting 3 in pace friendly conditions is orders of magnitude harder than batting 5/6. Sehwag managed a ton in SA batting 6. Comparing their records in England is pretty meaningless based on that and the fact that Ponting faced much better bowling there.

Yeah I don't think most people here have even looked up the kind of attacks Waugh scored heavily against in the 89 and 93 Ashes. England's attacks in the late 90s weren't world class or anything but atleast had Gough and Caddick who were good on their day, and Headley was class whenever he was actually able to get on the field. Apart from the two classic tons in 1997, Waugh's runs hardly came against any great opposition. England were opening the bowling with that Martin McCague guy ffs.

 

[kyear2]

Yeah, but Sehwag gets 'aggression' and 'batting position' points; which seems pretty hefty. The problem I have with such logic is that; let's per say Sehwag, he's great in Asia. But if I am making an ATG India team and taking it on tours, would I want him to really open in England, New Zealand and South Africa; when he has proven to be a walking wicket there? Or should I opt for someone who has relatively done well across all conditions like Vijay Merchant?

I called Sehwag a walking wicket in some conditions the other day and got flayed, possibly by u?

Anyways, why you look at home and away record.

And Sehwag isn't close to Ponting as a batsman.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I called Sehwag a walking wicket in some conditions the other day and got flayed, possibly by u?

Anyways, why you look at home and away record.

And Sehwag isn't close to Ponting as a batsman.

In which thread, because I don't think I really ever defended Sehwag in SEN.

I look at home and away record so I could properly understand the ability of a batsman to score runs in unfamiliar conditions against attacks whom are suited to those.

Exactly my point. Sehwag isn't close to Ponting, but only at home; he is better.

 

[kyear2]

In which thread, because I don't think I really ever defended Sehwag in SEN.

I look at home and away record so I could properly understand the ability of a batsman to score runs in unfamiliar conditions against attacks whom are suited to those.

Exactly my point. Sehwag isn't close to Ponting, but only at home; he is better.

Think was Jadeja being in an Indian all time XI

 

[Jumno]

I believe Waugh did better in England, India, SA.

Facing 80s and 90s bowlers were way tougher.

Played some impactful innings.

 

[Bolo.]

Yeah I don't think most people here have even looked up the kind of attacks Waugh scored heavily against in the 89 and 93 Ashes. England's attacks in the late 90s weren't world class or anything but atleast had Gough and Caddick who were good on their day, and Headley was class whenever he was actually able to get on the field. Apart from the two classic tons in 1997, Waugh's runs hardly came against any great opposition. England were opening the bowling with that Martin McCague guy ffs.

I'm not going to argue semantics on 'great'.

But RSA had some serious quality in the 90s. And he absolutely brutalised us. His few failures vs RSA came in the 2000s against a declining attack.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Think was Jadeja being in an Indian all time XI

I believe it was others, probably Sunilz or OS or Hh or Xix; as Sehwag is on the verge of losing his spot in my AT India XI.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I'm not going to argue semantics on 'great'.

But RSA had some serious quality in the 90s. And he absolutely brutalised us. His few failures vs RSA came in the 2000s against a declining attack.

I believe though he was talking only about England; as he also had an ATG Windies tour.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I'm not going to argue semantics on 'great'.

But RSA had some serious quality in the 90s. And he absolutely brutalised us. His few failures vs RSA came in the 2000s against a declining attack.

Talking specifically for England tours since others are bringing those runs in as an argument vs Ponting. Waugh's greatness against SA's attacks is beyond debate.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Talking specifically for England tours since others are bringing those runs in as an argument vs Ponting. Waugh's greatness against SA's attacks is beyond debate.

Two points; Ponting himself only has one truly great innings vs England; and except the 2005 tour; England weren't necessarily producing 50s attacks. Waugh averages 30 runs more in England. I think that's a big number to overcome even with the batting position and better attacks argument. Are Viv and Dravid better in England? Absolutely. Is Ponting? I don't think he really has a case here.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Yea Anderson and broad weren’t great bowlers in 2009. Anderson averaged like 45 in the 09 ashes.

 

[Coronis]

Yea Anderson and broad weren’t great bowlers in 2009. Anderson averaged like 45 in the 09 ashes.

Anderson averages 45 in most Ashes

 

[Bolo.]

Talking specifically for England tours since others are bringing those runs in as an argument vs Ponting. Waugh's greatness against SA's attacks is beyond debate.

Missed that.

Fair play.

 

[kyear2]

I'm not going to argue semantics on 'great'.

But RSA had some serious quality in the 90s. And he absolutely brutalised us. His few failures vs RSA came in the 2000s against a declining attack.

I think it's important to say that no one thinks Waugh Sr wasn't really good.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I think it's important to say that no one thinks Waugh Sr wasn't really good.

I might as well clarify Ponting is a no brainer in my Top 25.

 

[howitzer]

Anderson averages 45 in most Ashes

Actually barring one series he conceded 1 run to average infinity he only averaged mid 40s twice out of 9 attempts. Sure he's averaged in the 80s twice but that leaves 5 series where he averaged less than 30, a better than 50% success rate. 3 of those were away from home too, which suggests his reputation as a home track bully is misplaced. Clearly numbers of an ATG Ashes bowler.

 

[centurymaker]

Poll has settled it tbf
27 to 12 is a big enough margin in favour of Ponting.