Steve Waugh vs Ricky Ponting in Tests?

[subshakerz]

3. The record vs top teams away from home, that's where Steve Waugh was again superior to Ponting. His performance in India, England( where he was absolute beast) and South Africa are superior to Ponting's record there. Didn't checked for Windies but is he better there also?

Steve Waugh was an extremely clutch batsman who played several memorable knocks in Tests. So, there is no clutch factor in favour of Ponting either.

Waugh was awesome in the WI too. He no doubt has a notably superior away record.

 

[Majestic]

Waugh was awesome in the WI too. He no doubt has a notably superior away record.

Steve Waugh is a better test batsman comfortably.

 

[capt_Luffy]

You've (unintentionally) hinted at a grain of truth (in a roundabout way). There may be some cognitive dissonance on this topic for those who foolishly pretend that strike rate and the ability to dominate an attack don't matter a lot. Obviously they do and it's purely nerd wankery to pretend otherwise.

I mean, ofcourse!! Boycott can't stand toe to toe with Hayden and Sehwag!!!

 

[capt_Luffy]

Waugh was awesome in the WI too. He no doubt has a notably superior away record.

Now tell me, with respect to era; was Ponting really THAT superior at home??

 

[trundler]

I mean, ofcourse!! Boycott can't stand toe to toe with Hayden and Sehwag!!!

 

[subshakerz]

You've (unintentionally) hinted at a grain of truth (in a roundabout way). There may be some cognitive dissonance on this topic for those who foolishly pretend that strike rate and the ability to dominate an attack don't matter a lot. Obviously they do and it's purely nerd wankery to pretend otherwise.

I am one of the biggest promoters of this approach. But I always say it is for cricketers with roughly the same record, we go to the more aggressive choice.

The problem here is that Waugh has a superior record IMO, especially away, and faced tougher bowling generally. But then I think batting at the top order is more difficult. But then Waugh has so many clutch innings. But then Ponting has a slightly better rep. It's a tough one.

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

Also way easier era..... If you want just go by this logic, then surely Herbert Sutcliffe is better than none bar Don!

Like I said, there are plenty of other considerations than just batting position ...but batting position is definitely a consideration. It's fair to point out that the 00s were an easy batting era and account for this when rating Ponting. Likewise batting #5 behind a strong batting line up is clearly easier than batting up the order and don't see why you shouldn't also account for that when rating Waugh. How much you weight each factor is up to you. Waugh did great things, played some great innings. Ponting did great things, played some great innings. I think Ponting was the more impactful player and a bigger reason for his side's success than Waugh was* which swings it for me.

*which isn't saying that Waugh was insignificant, before I get accused of saying that.


Sutcliffe by and large played in a pretty easy batting era. But he was pretty gun, aye. Better than both Ponting and Waugh would you say?

 

[Coronis]

Sutcliffe by and large played in a pretty easy batting era. But he was pretty gun, aye. Better than both Ponting and Waugh would you say?

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[capt_Luffy]

Like I said, there are plenty of other considerations than just batting position ...but batting position is definitely a consideration. It's fair to point out that the 00s were an easy batting era and account for this when rating Ponting. Likewise batting #5 behind a strong batting line up is clearly easier than batting up the order and don't see why you shouldn't also account for that when rating Waugh. How much you weight each factor is up to you. Waugh did great things, played some great innings. Ponting did great things, played some great innings. I think Ponting was the more impactful player and a bigger reason for his side's success than Waugh was* which swings it for me.

*which isn't saying that Waugh was insignificant, before I get accused of saying that.


Sutcliffe by and large played in a pretty easy batting era. But he was pretty gun, aye. Better than both Ponting and Waugh would you say?

I mean, yeah Sutcliffe was better than both Ponting and Waugh. Due to Waugh's clutch factor and Ponting's flat pitches, I don't think batting position is enough to say they were much different; had they had identical stats. They don't. And then comes the away record.....

 

[Aidan11]

Close call but Ponting probably just ahead.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Yea close one. If Waugh batted higher up he’s be comfortably better, but he didnt.

I’d probably still go for Waugh since he was much more impactful to Australian cricket.

 

[shortpitched713]

Then Mathews Hayden> Ponting confirmed?? A player who actually opened the innings like a MAN!!!

Correct.

 

[centurymaker]

You're right, there are no good arguments for Ponting except the good arguments for Ponting.

He neither watched Waugh nor Ponting and is going off raw stats knowing less about the context. And making generalisations, such as flat track era and what not. TBF Ponting is as much a beneficiary of flat roads at home as Steve smith. Only last few years have pitches been more balanced in Australia.

And let's be clear that if a player is facing a quality attack even a 45 avg is worth more than avging 75 against crap bowlers.

Anyone who watched both play knows very well that Ponting > Waugh. Ponting was so bloody clutch besides being dominant. He would often get a ton in the 1st match of a big series with all the hype surrounding it and it would often set his team up for series wins.

His stroke-making and timing was only behind Tendulkar and Lara. It was like watching a genius at play. You don't get that with Waugh or any other Aussie batting great.

 

[subshakerz]

Anyone who watched both play knows very well that Ponting > Waugh. Ponting was so bloody clutch besides being dominant. He would often get a ton in the 1st match of a big series with all the hype surrounding it and it would often set his team up for series wins.

His stroke-making and timing was only behind Tendulkar and Lara. It was like watching a genius at play. You don't get that with Waugh or any other Aussie batting great.

Instinctively feel this as well. Also feel most of their same team would likely put Ponting ahead.

Yet he also had it easier in terms of who he faced and not as great a record. Hence why it's a toss up.

 

[Majestic]

Anyone who watched both play knows very well that Ponting > Waugh. Ponting was so bloody clutch besides being dominant. He would often get a ton in the 1st match of a big series with all the hype surrounding it and it would often set his team up for series wins.

His stroke-making and timing was only behind Tendulkar and Lara. It was like watching a genius at play. You don't get that with Waugh or any other Aussie batting great.

Buddy, you could say exactly same things and use exact same words for Virat Kohli, AB de Villiers and Kevin Pietersen also. Would you say they were also better than Steve Waugh?

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Buddy, you could say exactly same things and use exact same words for Virat Kohli, AB de Villiers and Kevin Pietersen also. Would you say they were also better than Steve Waugh?

Kohli will be better than both Waugh and Ponting if he has 2-3 more good years.

ABD at his best was better than Ponting and Waugh but didn’t have the longevity.

 

[subshakerz]

Kohli will be better than both Waugh and Ponting if he has 2-3 more good years.

ABD at his best was better than Ponting and Waugh but didn’t have the longevity.

Kohli needs to dramatically improve in England and even then it's debatable.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Kohli needs to dramatically improve in England and even then it's debatable.

Disagree, think his record in England is as good or better than Pontings when you adjust for the conditions and quality of bowling. And Kohli in Aus and SA >>> Ponting in Ind and SA.

Let’s wait to see if Kohli continues his good form over the next few years though. Ponting is obviously better atm.

 

[Zinzan]

Surprised this is as close as it is... Punter comfortably for mine.

 

[Burgey]

I swear Ponting is one of the most overrated batsman in not only CW, but in general; while Steve Waugh is definitely massively underrated...

Ponting is criminally under rated on cw. He is comfortably the best Australian batsman between Bradman and Smith and the best number three besides Bradman that we've ever had. The way he tailed off doesn't detract from that, but too many folks allow it to cloud their view of him. He batted in the most important position in the order and he owned it for most of a decade. The bloke was immense. Waugh was a great player but Ponting was better and more important to the sides they played in than Waugh was.