Steve Waugh vs Ricky Ponting in Tests?

[capt_Luffy]

No Waugh has a slightly better record except Ponting was batting at no.3 and also much more aggressive which gives him a slight edge.

Waugh outperforms Ponting in South Africa against better bowling attacks; at most you could say those are slightly better (to which I disagree). His record in England and India are MASSIVELY better. And I really find this attempt to make out Steve Waugh an easy run getter, a Chanderpaul of sorts; really pathetic. He was the ultimate crisis man, much like Laxman; and batted down because he was the best to support the batting unit from there. Not to mention, the 90s were farrrrr tougher than the 2000s....

 

[Coronis]

Hmmm, one guy hid down the order and batted for his average with the tail and the other a beneficiary of the Mega Flat Track era.

But, you know, both were pretty decent I guess. Hard to call.

(Also, 18 non-Kallis threads in PC!!)

I think you’re being sarcastic here but in general this reasoning is my least favourite argument in regards to batsmen. Much hate.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I think you’re being sarcastic here but in general this reasoning is my least favourite argument in regards to batsmen. Much hate.

Wake up to the reality!! Waugh is just a much superior batsman; don't follow those Pontingtards!!!! Come, join us.....

 

[subshakerz]

Waugh outperforms Ponting in South Africa against better bowling attacks; at most you could say those are slightly better (to which I disagree). His record in England and India are MASSIVELY better. And I really find this attempt to make out Steve Waugh an easy run getter, a Chanderpaul of sorts; really pathetic. He was the ultimate crisis man, much like Laxman; and batted down because he was the best to support the batting unit from there. Not to mention, the 90s were farrrrr tougher than the 2000s....

I agree with all of that.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I agree with all of that.

Then come, join us! Join us on the bright side!!

 

[Coronis]

Wake up to the reality!! Waugh is just a much superior batsman; don't follow those Pontingtards!!!! Come, join us.....

I’ll stick with Ponting but the batting lower down argument is stupid.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I’ll stick with Ponting but the batting lower down argument is stupid.

Then what's your best argument for Ponting?? Honestly, haven't seen one convincing even a bit....

 

[OverratedSanity]

He wasn't Chanderpaul but Steve waugh loved that red ink.

 

[Coronis]

Then what's your best argument for Ponting?? Honestly, haven't seen one convincing even a bit....

He has fewer ducks despite batting higher up the order and in more innings.

 

[shortpitched713]

I think you’re being sarcastic here but in general this reasoning is my least favourite argument in regards to batsmen. Much hate.

You don't think there's anything to the trend that senior batsmen tend to stick themselves down the order, and would be looking for some protection from the new ball ( and hence help their individual average stat )?

You'll almost never see a senior batsman who didn't specialize at 3, choosing to go up the order to take that position. Steve Smith inexplicably trying to open is a vast departure from the norm. Senior batsmen want the 4, 5, 6 positions almost exclusively, and it's kind of self serving.

 

[_00_deathscar]

Let’s not make out like Ponting had some difficult job at 3 with the two openers he had playing for the majority of his career

 

[capt_Luffy]

He has fewer ducks despite batting higher up the order and in more innings.

Honestly, I was really interested..... I would take the bad batsman = down the order argument. Thank You.

 

[Coronis]

You don't think there's anything to the trend that senior batsmen tend to stick themselves down the order, and would be looking for some protection from the new ball ( and hence help their individual average stat )?

You'll almost never see a senior batsman who didn't specialize at 3, choosing to go up the order to take that position. Steve Smith inexplicably trying to open is a vast departure from the norm. Senior batsmen want the 4, 5, 6 positions almost exclusively, and it's kind of self serving.

No.

Your best batsman generally bats at 3/4 unless they’re a specialist opener. However, some players e.g Waugh, Border, Chanderpaul come into sides with established upper order players and then stay down the order when these other players retire, where they’ve built their reputation and record. I have no issues with this, and don’t believe its selfish. If they were to move up the order and struggle in a different role, it would inevitably hurt the team. Not really self serving imo.

 

[capt_Luffy]

He wasn't Chanderpaul but Steve waugh loved that red ink.

Doesn't matters to me. He performed in tough away conditions and by far provided a great support at no 5/6. He was one of the best batsman to bat with the tailenders and if anything, Australia needed him there much more than say him to open.

 

[Coronis]

Honestly, I was really interested..... I would take the bad batsman = down the order argument. Thank You.

Joke answers are better though.

In all seriousness, Ponting was clearly better at home, scored tons far more often and despite Waugh being better in England and India Ponting was as good or better than him everywhere else. In his peak, he was also a level above Waughs best. Not a huge factor in rating for me, but in a direct close(ish) comparison, its worth mentioning.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Joke answers are better though.

In all seriousness, Ponting was clearly better at home, scored tons far more often and despite Waugh being better in England and India Ponting was as good or better than him everywhere else.

West Indies. South Africa. Ponting was really better than him only in Sri Lanka and New Zealand; tough teams especially SL at home; but not nearly equal level of challenge imo. Ponting was definitely better at home, but he also massively benefitted from the downgrade in the quality of bowlers, pitches and Australia became even easier for batting (for context, Warne averaged close to 30 at home post 2000, ofcourse has to do with form; but also the pitch as well).

 

[subshakerz]

Wake up to the reality!! Waugh is just a much superior batsman; don't follow those Pontingtards!!!! Come, join us.....

I'm split honestly. I just think in my gut that Ponting would still be averaging 50 plus if he debuted a decade earlier, but no doubt he be benefitted from easier opposition. I may even change my mind on this.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I'm split honestly. I just think in my gut that Ponting would still be averaging 50 plus if he debuted a decade earlier, but no doubt he be benefitted from easier opposition. I may even change my mind on this.

I am really close to bring one more to the Waughood!!!

 

[Majestic]

I don't see any influencing reason to pick Ponting over Waugh except that Ponting was an aggressive batsman while Waugh was a defensive batsman and their batting positions also, so okay that's two. But Waugh had to bowl also, use himself as 5th bowler so again that batting position is not necessarily a very valid argument.

However, there are multiple reasons to pick Waugh over Ponting.

1. Waugh played on tough batting conditions in Australia in the era of 90s and mid-80s within a weak team while Ponting had the luxury of flattest batting decks you get across the world in 2000s.

2. Probably the most influential argument, the quality of bowling was far far superior in Waugh's era than it was Ponting who actually went on to hit his beast form once all those great fast bowlers started retiring.

3. The record vs top teams away from home, that's where Steve Waugh was again superior to Ponting. His performance in India, England( where he was absolute beast) and South Africa are superior to Ponting's record there. Didn't checked for Windies but is he better there also?

Steve Waugh was an extremely clutch batsman who played several memorable knocks in Tests. So, there is no clutch factor in favour of Ponting either.

 

[kyear2]

Ponting. Had the way tougher job at 3 instead of hiding down at 5/6, more dynamic as a batsman and had a better peak.

This for me.