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Is Ravichandran Ashwin an ATG test bowler?

Is Ravichandran Ashwin an ATG test bowler?

  • Total voters
    75
M

ma1978

International Debutant
Victor Ian said:
Wait...so you can discredit everyone because 'bad in india' but now 'bad everywhere else' is ok to get Ashwin a woodie and you've rescinded 'bad in India'. If SENA is not a thing, is India a thing?

Will you really call Anderson ATG just so that Ashwin can be called ATG? That is rather sad, but if that's how it goes then I'll cede Broad is ATG so that everyone calls Merv Hughes ATG.
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I never discredited anyone because “bad in India”. I said almost everyone has holes in their record and it’s lame to look for those kind of specifics and people should consider records in totality.

India is a thing, it’s a country, SENA is not a thing. It’s four countries with vastly different conditions:

And of course Anderson is an ATG. A pacer with 700 wickets.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
ma1978 said:
I never discredited anyone because “bad in India”. I said almost everyone has holes in their record and it’s lame to look for those kind of specifics and people should consider records in totality.

India is a thing, it’s a country, SENA is not a thing. It’s four countries with vastly different conditions:

And of course Anderson is an ATG. A pacer with 700 wickets.
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If context means nothing and we look in totality, then Walcott and Weekes are top 10 batsmen, Kallis better than Tendulkar and Sangakkara is the 2nd best batsman ever?

If there are at best 3 competitive teams and you average 28, 43 and 49 in said countries, that's not nick picking. That's a serious red flag, not to mention the missed games.

PC (I think) paired a thread a few months back, asking to compare bowling attacks. Multiple posters reacted by saying that Miller nor Ashwin belonged in that company and even Pollock looked out of place among the other names. I think it was @capt_Luffy who was defending Ash staying that while he wants in the same ballpark of Warne, Murali and most of the pacers, he was at least around Pollock's level. There's layers to this ****. Anyways I'm off to to bed.

Oh, and re Anderson, can anyone say with a straight face that he's one of the greatest bowlers ever? Comparable to the greats at the top? No.
 
M

ma1978

International Debutant
kyear2 said:
Asking for someone to perform well away from home or the SC isn't analysis by checklist, and you know this. You accuse Subs of moving goal posts and you're doing the same thing now. Just to be able to prove your point, SENA now isn't a thing. So we can basically ignore what doesn't suit the argument or narrative.

And let's give a rest to the real world argument, because if that's the audience you're playing to, then why are you here and secondly the "real world" thinks Gavaskar and Sehwag are the best openers ever, Bradman is mostly a myth and most think Kallis is undisputably the greatest all rounder ever. Look at every fan voted ATG team, not to add Wasim opens every attack.
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I absolutely think Kallis has a casefor the greatest ever all rounder and Wasim would open my attack.

And no SENA was created on this board and certain sections of the media to reflect the fears of a certain generation of Indian fan. It’s not a location, a country, a common environment for cricket (neither is the SC btw). No Australian orSouth African or even English fan differentiates so much about how their players do away from home.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
OverratedSanity said:
Saying gavaskar is the best opener ever is hardly some nutty thing either. He's close enough that you can make a credible case.
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You guys missed the point, most of the "outside world" don't know who Hobbs and and Hutton even were, Bradman and Sobers are at best vestiges or antiques of the past.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
TheJediBrah said:
right so being sub-par in SENA is a lot worse than being sub-par just in India, against 1 opposition
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To avoid addressing the issue, he's basically gaslighting at this point.

If there's 3 decent opposing teams and you've generally performed below par against all 3, in the instances that you've actually played, then there's no valid excuse for that, so just misdirect.
 
Coronis

Coronis

International Coach
capt_Luffy said:
Ahead of Sobers??? Nah.....
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I don’t agree with this take personally, but its certainly not crazy imo. Far from the worst take on this site or hell, even this thread. We all (obviously) have a tendency to overanalyse here and the gaps we perceive aren’t usually as big as in reality.

kyear2 said:
If context means nothing and we look in totality, then Walcott and Weekes are top 10 batsmen, Kallis better than Tendulkar and Sangakkara is the 2nd best batsman ever?
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Yes.

kyear2 said:
Oh, and re Anderson, can anyone say with a straight face that he's one of the greatest bowlers ever? Comparable to the greats at the top? No.
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At least in the media and amongst certain ex players etc, lots of people can say this with a straight face.
 
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
See how at least there is cricketing discussion the moment someone stops posting?


FWIW, I think Ashwin is a top 5 spinner of all time and therefore an ATG. If your definition of ATG restricts you to just 3 spinners or something, then I guess it makes sense he is not an ATG. Otherwise, I dont think there is a case to not call him an ATG.
 
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