Is Ravichandran Ashwin an ATG test bowler?

[TheJediBrah]

70 is way too many IMO

 

[kyear2]

70 is way too many IMO

Wayy too many

 

[ma1978]

There have been c3500 test cricketers.

MLB inducts 1.5% of all players into its hall of fame which is the most selective so that ls 52-53

other halls of fame are more like 2.0%

run an exercise here, every member has 15 votes, the top 30 get in, then you run it for another four years to add five a piece.

 

[subshakerz]

There have been c3500 test cricketers.

MLB inducts 1.5% of all players into its hall of fame which is the most selective so that ls 52-53

other halls of fame are more like 2.0%

run an exercise here, every member has 15 votes, the top 30 get in, then you run it for another four years to add five a piece.

Hall of fall would be for regular greats, not just ATGs.

 

[ataraxia]

Hall of fall would be for regular greats, not just ATGs.

So how many ATGs do you think there should be?

 

[ma1978]

Hall of fall would be for regular greats, not just ATGs.

this is a distinction that exists in your head, not mine, and really only in this site

 

[ma1978]

Hall of fall would be for regular greats, not just ATGs.

and do you consider Ravi Ashwin to be a “regular great” (not that this is a thing)

 

[kyear2]

Honestly, I would avoid tiers of ATGs myself. Just list them by discipline and then within that define who is top of the top. This is way more complicated and also makes it seems more arbitrary. Like why would Hobbs be a tier above Viv, or Marshall a tier above Imran as a cricketer?

No part of it was arbitrary, it's based on the tiers I have of the individual disciplines.

My absolute top tier of batsmen are Bradman, Sachin, Sobers, Hobbs. Small gap, then Richards, Smith, Lara, Hutton. That's the overall top tier with the top 4 being a bit further ahead. So Hobbs and Sachin are a mini tier ahead of Viv, hence same here.

For bowlers that top tier has 3 players, Marshall, McGrath, Hadlee. The next tier is Steyn, Warne, Murali, Ambrose. Imran is 8th, leading the next tier. So Marshall is the best bowler and two tiers above Imran as a bowler, hence a tier above here.

 

[kyear2]

and do you consider Ravi Ashwin to be a “regular great” (not that this is a thing)

I definitely think he's a great player, but mentioned that already.

 

[TheJediBrah]

this is a distinction that exists in your head, not mine, and really only in this site

Why do you keep saying things like this? You're not the arbiter of clearly subjective classifications

And a lot of the opinions you are insiting are commonly held, actually aren't

 

[ma1978]

Why do you keep saying things like this? You're not the arbiter of clearly subjective classifications

And a lot of the opinions you are insiting are commonly held, actually aren't

like?

 

[subshakerz]

So how many ATGs do you think there should be?

This is my list.

My list of confirmed ATGs:

ATG pacers: Barnes, Marshall, McGrath, Hadlee, Imran, Steyn, Ambrose, Lillee, Trueman, Wasim, Donald, Lindwall

ATG bats: Bradman, Tendulkar, Sobers, Viv, Hobbs, Smith, Lara, Hammond, Gavaskar, Hutton, Headley, Pollock, Sutcliffe, Chappell, Ponting, Border

ATG spin: Warne, Murali, O'Reilly

ATG wks: Gilly, Knott

ATG ARs: Kallis, Miller

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

There have been c3500 test cricketers.

MLB inducts 1.5% of all players into its hall of fame which is the most selective so that ls 52-53

other halls of fame are more like 2.0%

run an exercise here, every member has 15 votes, the top 30 get in, then you run it for another four years to add five a piece.

That's not how it works for MLB.

 

[subshakerz]

No part of it was arbitrary, it's based on the tiers I have of the individual disciplines.

My absolute top tier of batsmen are Bradman, Sachin, Sobers, Hobbs. Small gap, then Richards, Smith, Lara, Hutton. That's the overall top tier with the top 4 being a bit further ahead. So Hobbs and Sachin are a mini tier ahead of Viv, hence same here.

For bowlers that top tier has 3 players, Marshall, McGrath, Hadlee. The next tier is Steyn, Warne, Murali, Ambrose. Imran is 8th, leading the next tier. So Marshall is the best bowler and two tiers above Imran as a bowler, hence a tier above here.

Yeah but Sobers, Hadlee and Imran should be considered ATG allrounders, no? Otherwise why is Kallis second tier, do you really rate his batting that much alone?

And putting the top four of a discipline in one tier is arbitrary unless there is a reason for that number. And the division between the next tiers also doesn't make much sense.

Anyways to each their own. I think you add more problems with this approach.

 

[subshakerz]

and do you consider Ravi Ashwin to be a “regular great” (not that this is a thing)

Yes definitely he is. How can he not be a great cricketer with 500 wickets?

 

[ma1978]

That's not how it works for MLB.

Yes you could do it do the way people do in MLB which could also make sense

 

[ma1978]

Yes definitely he is.

we’re going to have to agree to disagree about the definitions because I think this argument is more about definitions than it is about Ashwin.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Yes you could do it do the way people do in MLB which could also make sense

I actually think this method could work well on this website. Ironically Ashwin wouldn't be getting into the HoF as it currently stands, he doesn't meet the threshold.

 

[ma1978]

I actually think this method could work well on this website. Ironically Ashwin wouldn't be getting into the HoF as it currently stands, he doesn't meet the threshold.

this is only looking at him as a bowler, math may change if you factor the batting

but in baseball parlance, I view Ashwin in totality as a borderline first ballot HOF, someone who sneaks in with 76% of the vote not 90%+ and someone who could easily wait a couple years

 

[Coronis]

I wasn't until Coronis came along, so no thanks to you. And yeah, this is junk from you because you can't seem to answer properly to anything I say for some bizarre reason.

Happy to be of service