Is Ravichandran Ashwin an ATG test bowler?

[ma1978]

If Stuart Macgill could bat like Jadeja, he would be picked as first choice over Warne

 

[kyear2]

If it's that strict then people like O'Reilly shouldn't be ATG per your list. Wasn't like he was put that much outside of his comfort zone.

Which Indian team are you discussing here? If it's the worse ones they faced then none, because India was weaker then. Otherwise I don't mind making a case for Ashwin over all 3 even on the conditions they faced.

You're just willing to pull down everyone to prove your point aren't you. Tiger was leagues ahead of your guy, that's not even a discussion worth having.

 

[subshakerz]

This is how I know the arguments aren't in good faith.
1. It was one game and I know ORS knows better and is aware of the circumstances surrounding what happened. For @Xix2565 I know it's just blind patriotism at this point so it is what it is.

We're talking one match vs strategic decisions to consistently not play a bowler in overseas matches.

Noted.

Their whole thread is full of bad faith arguments.

 

[honestbharani]

The fact that only tjb and saltshakerz keep using "they" "Their side" "That group" shows who is here to discuss and who is here to just argue, tbh.

 

[ma1978]

Their whole thread is full of bad faith arguments.

Yea. Yours.

Cherry picking stats

Creating “criteria” to conform to your argument

Ignoring totality in favor of narrow criteria

You had an opinion (a terrible one) and created a narrative to support it

 

[subshakerz]

You're just willing to pull down everyone to prove your point aren't you. Tiger was leagues ahead of your guy, that's not even a discussion worth having.

Just a reminder.

List of players in this thread that have been unfairly downgraded by the usual posters to make Ashwin look better:

Laker (journeyman away from home)

O'Reilly (total product of spiced up pitches)

Lyon (can't bowl at home when Ashwin tours)

Warne and Murali (failed in India, ergo failed in SC)

Smith (owned so bad by Ashwin he should have retired)

Lillee (ATG? Really?)

 

[Socerer 01]

hmm surely its a coincidence that patriotism, nationalism and all other isms are brought out only when its players from a certain country that are being favoured in arguments

 

[subshakerz]

The fact that only tjb and saltshakerz keep using "they" "Their side" "That group" shows who is here to discuss and who is here to just argue, tbh.

Don't be a snowflake HB. Learn to take your hits as much as you give.

 

[subshakerz]

hmm surely its a coincidence that patriotism, nationalism and all other isms are brought out only when its players from a certain country that are being favoured in arguments

What is the common slur about me by HB, et al for years now?

 

[kyear2]

@Spark was earlier talking about bans. I am not sure why the forum atmosphere one is not applied here. This is not the first time subzi has shown his obvious biased takes on Indian cricket and cricketers and yet every thread in CC is the same old. Its fine to hate on Indian cricket, be jelly or envious or whatever the crap it is he feels for it but surely there comes a time when you realize there is no reason to post endlessly on the same topic.

I mean this is Richard levels of bad here. And I feel pretty sure there is more of Richard under the hood in subzi's posting which will come out eventually. It is almost as if we cannot discuss just about anything related to Indian cricket on here for the fear of this guy coming in and derailing with his blatantly idiotic and biased posting.

Dude, the only person brining up nationality is you. The only person bringing up racism is you. Subz for all his takes has done the same thing to Ambrose and to Kallis, but when he does it to support players you guys like you support it. None of this is new and I don't see why you've made it into a nationalistic issue.

He literally said it was his goal to take Ambrose down a tier or two and his Kallis rants are equally epicly bad. He also has a personal goal to down grade Lara at every possible opportunity to uplift Sachin, so the anti India thing doesn't jive there.
But despite that I wouldn't say that he's ani West Indian because he goes almost as hard for Viv, id course Viv doesn't lose a threat to Imran and he sees him as below Sachin (I think) so there's that.

So this take wouldn't be looked at kindly by some and make me even less popular but this direction isn't helping the discourse of the thread.

Just my two cents worth.

 

[Socerer 01]

What is the common slur about me by HB, et al for years now?

i wasnt even referring to you in this instance

 

[ma1978]

Just a reminder.

List of players in this thread that have been unfairly downgraded by the usual posters to make Ashwin look better:

Laker (journeyman away from home)

O'Reilly (total product of spiced up pitches)

Lyon (can't bowl at home when Ashwin tours)

Warne and Murali (failed in India, ergo failed in SC)

Smith (owned so bad by Ashwin he should have retired)

Lillee (ATG? Really?)

This is a line of approach you started when you cherrypick performances to suit a meritless argument. It’s meant to show the absurdity in your POV.

The point is anyone’s record can be poked on similar ways (I don’t see Murali / Warne failing in India as any different than Ashwin in Australia, or worse).

That’s why we look at totality of accomplishment. Something you fail to do.

 

[honestbharani]

Dude, the only person brining up nationality is you. The only person bringing up racism is you.

I brought neither of those up here in this thread at any point. The fact that you, like tjb and subzi so far, keep going back to these words shows who are the real snowflakes and the ones who can dish it out but can't take it, are.

The fact is the only reason subzi argues these idiotic points is coz he cant stomach Indian cricketers succeed. And his repeating these points ad nauseum even when everyone else have proven him wrong and biased is fair grounds for the forum atmosphere rule to be applied, as it was with aussie and probably would have with Richard had it been a thing when he was a regular.

 

[ma1978]

Dude, the only person brining up nationality is you. The only person bringing up racism is you. Subz for all his takes has done the same thing to Ambrose and to Kallis, but when he does it to support players you guys like you support it. None of this is new and I don't see why you've made it into a nationalistic issue.

He literally said it was his goal to take Ambrose down a tier or two and his Kallis rants are equally epicly bad. He also has a personal goal to down grade Lara at every possible opportunity to uplift Sachin, so the anti India thing doesn't jive there.
But despite that I wouldn't say that he's ani West Indian because he goes almost as hard for Viv, id course Viv doesn't lose a threat to Imran and he sees him as below Sachin (I think) so there's that.

So this take wouldn't be looked at kindly by some and make me even less popular but this direction isn't helping the discourse of the thread.

Just my two cents worth.

Fine. He’s just clueless about cricket and has an exceptional time on his hands. It’s a good thing he’s not an amateur pilot because if he applied the same incompetence and lack of judgment…

 

[subshakerz]

Dude, the only person brining up nationality is you. The only person bringing up racism is you. Subz for all his takes has done the same thing to Ambrose and to Kallis, but when he does it to support players you guys like you support it. None of this is new and I don't see why you've made it into a nationalistic issue.

He literally said it was his goal to take Ambrose down a tier or two and his Kallis rants are equally epicly bad. He also has a personal goal to down grade Lara at every possible opportunity to uplift Sachin, so the anti India thing doesn't jive there.
But despite that I wouldn't say that he's ani West Indian because he goes almost as hard for Viv, id course Viv doesn't lose a threat to Imran and he sees him as below Sachin (I think) so there's that.

So this take wouldn't be looked at kindly by some and make me even less popular but this direction isn't helping the discourse of the thread.

Just my two cents worth.

To state the obvious, the reason they are accusing me of nationalist bias is because that is their own prime motivation behind defending and upholding Ashwin. It is 100 percent projection.

 

[honestbharani]

i wasnt even referring to you in this instance

And he calls others a snowflake.

 

[ma1978]

Just a reminder.

List of players in this thread that have been unfairly downgraded by the usual posters to make Ashwin look better:

Laker (journeyman away from home)

O'Reilly (total product of spiced up pitches)

Lyon (can't bowl at home when Ashwin tours)

Warne and Murali (failed in India, ergo failed in SC)

Smith (owned so bad by Ashwin he should have retired)

Lillee (ATG? Really?)

All of these things are to a large extent true except the one about Lillee, they take nothing away from the excellence of the individuals above. Same with Ashwin.

 

[Xix2565]

This is how I know the arguments aren't in good faith.
1. It was one game and I know ORS knows better and is aware of the circumstances surrounding what happened. For @Xix2565 I know it's just blind patriotism at this point so it is what it is.

We're talking one match vs strategic decisions to consistently not play a bowler in overseas matches.

Noted.

Can't take jokes, I see.

You're just willing to pull down everyone to prove your point aren't you. Tiger was leagues ahead of your guy, that's not even a discussion worth having.

Apparently it's pulling people down when I ask for a proper demonstration of standards, but this level of junk posting is all fine huh @Spark?

 

[subshakerz]

i wasnt even referring to you in this instance

Ok my apologies.

 

[Socerer 01]

Dude, the only person brining up nationality is you. The only person bringing up racism is you. Subz for all his takes has done the same thing to Ambrose and to Kallis, but when he does it to support players you guys like you support it. None of this is new and I don't see why you've made it into a nationalistic issue.

He literally said it was his goal to take Ambrose down a tier or two and his Kallis rants are equally epicly bad. He also has a personal goal to down grade Lara at every possible opportunity to uplift Sachin, so the anti India thing doesn't jive there.
But despite that I wouldn't say that he's ani West Indian because he goes almost as hard for Viv, id course Viv doesn't lose a threat to Imran and he sees him as below Sachin (I think) so there's that.

So this take wouldn't be looked at kindly by some and make me even less popular but this direction isn't helping the discourse of the thread.

Just my two cents worth.

you’re omitting the whole part where subs frequently indulges in misery posting on every Indian loss but conveniently disappears when they win yet somehow turns up right on time when India loses, his weird posting in those best teams of 2023 or 2024 where he refused to acknowledge India in that convo seriously while hyping bazballing England who despite playing impressive cricket hadnt achieved as much and him trying to insert himself into every discussion on certain Indian spinners on this forum at all times, including creating threads to do it

in this very thread he’s taken the convo into random tangents, misinterpreted words to create false narratives such as others bringing down other greats to make Ashwin look great when they havent done that, accused people supporting Ashwin of doing so only for nationalistic prejudice, accused people of creating false greats like Walsh and Anderson to make Ashwin look great and then turned around to make a list saying people have been dissing on these players as slander. people like you who come in after 40 pages only see the 1 user who insulted him and believe the narratives he weaves because surprise surprise, he has the most posts in this thread by far which makes it easy to control the narrative against multiple other users who have different opinions and views even if they all think Ashwin is a great

fwiw i dont think subs is inherently biased against Indian players or anything but i wont blame anyone accusing him of that when he’s given enough ammunition to do them by now over the years to do so, that doesnt excuse the **** he gets either