Ravichandran Ashwin vs Nathan Lyon

[subshakerz]

For all of Lyon's much vaunted ability to run through sides anywhere, he still ends up taking less wickets per match than Ashwin.

Yes entirely because of their home countries. Look at their away performances and Lyon easily leads in WPM over Ashwin who is not even 4WPM.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Lyon ain't an ATG. Neither is Ashwin. But Lyon is capable of winning matches and running through sides everywhere, unlike Ashwin. Lyon is a threat in SC and SENA, plus his record in Australia is very impressive compared to Ashwin home bullying.

But still Lyon is substandard with his 28+ averages in Aus, Ind, SA, Eng, Sl. Atleast Ashwin is ATG in some places and better than Lyon by a huge margin in the SC. I don’t think Lyon being substandard and only decently good in other places, is anything special to rate him above Ashwin And if Ashwin’s home bullying is so easy, why hasn’t Lyon been able to match it in Ind?

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Yes entirely because of their home countries. Look at their away performances and Lyon easily leads in WPM over Ashwin who is not even 4WPM.

Sure, but Lyon is at best a good or decent bowler away from home, and good at home. Ashwin is an ATG at home, and ok away(cause a good record in SL and WI, and a decent record in Eng, and not that bad in Aus). if you believe the former is a superior bowler or the latter, it’s a bit subjective, so respect your opinion there

 

[Xix2565]

Yes entirely because of their home countries. Look at their away performances and Lyon easily leads in WPM over Ashwin who is not even 4WPM.

How is a difference of about 0.5 WPM easily a lead? Compared to 1.16 overall or 2.2~ in their respective home conditions? Not the best case for Lyon either way.

 

[ma1978]

Lyon ain't an ATG. Neither is Ashwin. But Lyon is capable of winning matches and running through sides everywhere, unlike Ashwin. Lyon is a threat in SC and SENA, plus his record in Australia is very impressive compared to Ashwin home bullying.

If this is true how come his record is SO much worse

 

[subshakerz]

But still Lyon is substandard with his 28+ averages in Aus, Ind, SA, Eng, Sl. Atleast Ashwin is ATG in some places and better than Lyon by a huge margin in the SC. I don’t think Lyon being substandard and only decently good in other places, is anything special to rate him above Ashwin And if Ashwin’s home bullying is so easy, why hasn’t Lyon been able to match it in Ind?

You really call Lyon in Australia substandard?

Ashwin in SC conditions is superior to Lyon, but Lyon overall to me is still good and capable of winning games.

In SENA, Lyon is superior to Ashwin who thus far has lacked the ability to actually win games but running through a side.

So I am going to take the player that has more all-round capability to their game and can win games across countries to a player whose matchwinning is concentrated and limited to specific conditions.

 

[subshakerz]

If this is true how come his record is SO much worse

You.mean how is bowling spin in Australia harder for spinners than India?

 

[Xix2565]

Lyon wouldn't be winning a lot of those games without having Cummins/Starc/Hazlewood tbh. Penalised for the better SENA suited support ala Warne vs Murali.

 

[subshakerz]

Sure, but Lyon is at best a good or decent bowler away from home, and good at home. Ashwin is an ATG at home, and ok away(cause a good record in SL and WI, and a decent record in Eng, and not that bad in Aus). if you believe the former is a superior bowler or the latter, it’s a bit subjective, so respect your opinion there

From my perspective of match winning capacity, Ashwin is below average in England and Aus, and SENA as a whole.

 

[capt_Luffy]

From my perspective of match winning capacity, Ashwin is below average in England and Aus, and SENA as a whole.

Lyon in England: WPI- 1.96, average - 29.35
Ashwin in England: WPI- 1.64, average - 28.11
Yep, I can't believe Lyon's superiority over Ashwin.....

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

You really call Lyon in Australia substandard?

Ashwin in SC conditions is superior to Lyon, but Lyon overall to me is still good and capable of winning games.

In SENA, Lyon is superior to Ashwin who thus far has lacked the ability to actually win games but running through a side.

So I am going to take the player that has more all-round capability to their game and can win games across countries to a player whose matchwinning is concentrated and limited to specific conditions.

Compared to ATGs. Good overall, but nowhere close to ATG level. Substandard only compared to ATG level. Yes Lyon is better in SENA, but not by an enormous amount. Still averages 29 in Eng, 30+ in SA etc. beyond that, Lyon is more consistent across conditions definitely, but Ashwin is a far better matchwinner in SC than Lyon is anywhere. So I’ll take that, but as I said the alternative is perfectly acceptable, and it’s a bit subjective. So I respect your opinion.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Lyon in England: WPI- 1.96, average - 29.35
Ashwin in England: WPI- 1.64, average - 28.11
Yep, I can't believe Lyon's superiority over Ashwin.....

Yes very close in England, but I’ll give the edge to Lyon, as he has won some games there for Aus single-handedly.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

From my perspective of match winning capacity, Ashwin is below average in England and Aus, and SENA as a whole.

And Lyon will win you matches sometimes across different conditions, and that also not by that much compared. Lyon is also slightly above average at best in SENA(high averages in Eng, SA, at home). Ashwin is a definite match winner at home, SC generally and WI

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

And even Lyon’s got one fifer each only in Eng and SA, and in SA his record is quite bad, and only slightly above average in Eng.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Yes very close in England, but I’ll give the edge to Lyon, as he has won some games there for Aus single-handedly.

I will too, but Subs acts like Lyon is Murali in England and Ashwin is Kumble.... Lyon is better and have won games there (though he played twice the no. of matches and all countries especially makes tougher wickets for spinners when India tours); but the difference isn't behemoth.

 

[capt_Luffy]

And even Lyon’s got one fifer each only in Eng and SA, and in SA his record is quite bad, and only slightly above average in Eng.

In SA Lyon is hardly better than Ashwin and I would argue Ashwin's 4-fer was of equal quality.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

So it’s clear while Ashwin is a huge matchwinner in SC, Lyon is only slighlty better than him in SENA (except Aus, where he is clearly ahead ).

 

[capt_Luffy]

So it’s clear while Ashwin is a huge matchwinner in SC, Lyon is only slighlty better than him in SENA (except Aus, where he is clearly ahead ).

Oh and on the SENA matter, has anyone mentioned how bad his record is in Pakistan's home or even a decent SL?

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

I will too, but Subs acts like Lyon is Murali in England and Ashwin is Kumble.... Lyon is better and have won games there (though he played twice the no. of matches and all countries especially makes tougher wickets for spinners when India tours); but the difference isn't behemoth.

Exactly. Lyons not better than Ashwin SENA(except maybe Aus) by that much to supersede Ashwin’s superiority in SC

 

[subshakerz]

Lyon wouldn't be winning a lot of those games without having Cummins/Starc/Hazlewood tbh. Penalised for the better SENA suited support ala Warne vs Murali.

Ashwin has excellent pace support in his overseas games yet can't win.