subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
This isn't a Lillee thread. We are talking about away performances anyways.
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Is Ravichandran Ashwin an ATG test bowler?
- Thread starter PlayerComparisons
- Start date
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
WTF!! I am saying that he underperformed against anyone but England, even at home; and you're saying it's not a Lillee thread NOW??
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
He is definitely a contender for the second XI.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Reality > Speculation.
Let me spell it out.
Player A has excellent home and away records. He is tops.
Player B has excellent home and incomplete away records. He is not as good.
Player C has excellent home and poor away records. He is worst.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
I said it last page too.
You are making this Lillee vs Ashwin as overall bowlers. And I already told you I don't think he underperformed against Pak and WI at home even with a slightly high average as he was well amongst the wickets. It was a par performance at least. How far do you want to go down this rabbit hole?
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
And those wickets being some of the spiciest out there more often than not..... Against Pakistan: 30 innings, 71 wickets. Against WI: 23 innings, 55 wickets. I could hardly call that WPI great, let alone ATG standard; even before going into the pitches and his average.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
You yourself called him good against WI at home. Can we stop talking about Lillee in an Ashwin thread?
HouHsiaoHsien
International Debutant
First XI
Hobbs
Hutton
Bradman
Tendulkar
Viv
Sobers
Gilchrist
Imran
Warne
Marshall
Mcgrath
Second XI bowlers: Hadlee, Murali, Steyn, Ambrose.
and you’ve got guys like Donald, Wasim still ahead. So not close
HouHsiaoHsien
International Debutant
Fair enough
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
The criteria was to be a contender and I do think Lillee is especially for that Ambrose spot assuming I don't want two seamers.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
I called him just barely good. He played against 3 accountable teams at home; was ATG against one, barely good against one and above average against one. All at home. When Australia made some real spicy wickets.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
I think Subs has deliberately not responded to the Lillee point that he also had just good record against the other two teams he played at home except England. In wickets ideal for his bowling.
HouHsiaoHsien
International Debutant
I hope Ashwin has a great series in Australia when we tour later this year. Then he has a very convincing case
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
What didn't I respond to? As far as I am concerned, Lillee sufficiently passed muster. I indulged your Lillee diversion so stop crying foul.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Yeah, I kinda agree with Subs that Ashwin's SENA record leaves me kinda wanting more. I so desperately wanted him to get a 5fer or something in SA, but **** Rohit Sharma. I just feel he goes too hard on his SENA record, which he makes out to be awful, while it's perfectly fine, especially in England and Australia.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Not if the standards for ATG spinners are Warne/Murali/O'Reilly level. It will be seen as a one-off performance but as I said his SENA record at this point is unsalvageable.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
I believe I wasn't the one who brought up Lillee at first, but whatever, I was just calling you out on being biased.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
The reason I go hard is from my perspective you are trying to fix a title on him reserved for Warne/Murali level elites with his existing less than desierable SENA record.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Not biased. Consistent.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
I believe you are ignoring that Lillee was just above average against anyone but England. That's not consistency, but one eyedness