• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Is Ravichandran Ashwin an ATG test bowler?

Is Ravichandran Ashwin an ATG test bowler?

  • Total voters
    75
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
HouHsiaoHsien said:
and I agree with you there. But as you, how you define terms is a bit subjective. So I won't mind if people call Ashwin an ATG bowler, cause he is close to entering it.
Click to expand...
Kyear2 gave the definition which I have stated in as many words before.

kyear2 said:
For me an ATG is the absolute elite dominating your era, a champion home and away and someone who when I compile my shortlist is legitimately a contender for a 1st or second ATG team. That's my 3 criteria. But everyone's would differ.
Click to expand...
Would add peer rep as best of their time too.

Based on the above, Ashwin ain't close to entering as ATG.
 
H

HouHsiaoHsien

International Debutant
subshakerz said:
He is a champion in NZ and Eng, the only two countries he played sufficiently. But because he was unproven elsewhere he loses out to more well-rounded ATGs.
Click to expand...
And hence he isn’t a complete champion away. That way Ashwin is a champion in WI and SL. Further Kyear 2 mentioned about the first or second ATG team. Don’t think Lillee makes either of mine, and don’t think it’ll make either of yours?
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
HouHsiaoHsien said:
And hence he isn’t a complete champion away. That way Ashwin is a champion in WI and SL. Further Kyear 2 mentioned about the first or second ATG team. Don’t think Lillee makes either of mine, and don’t think it’ll make either of yours?
Click to expand...
Not sure he makes mine.

In Ashwin's case, we can't ignore a large sample of non-performance in evaluating him away. I don't see why this is so hard to understand. He has 25 tests in SENA that we are comparing with a handful for Lillee in SL, Pak and WI.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
subshakerz said:
He is a champion in NZ and Eng, the only two countries he played sufficiently. But because he was unproven elsewhere he loses out to more well-rounded ATGs.
Click to expand...
NZ was a minnow back then, close to WI now. He played plenty of Pakistan and WI too at home, his record is plain good to above average against them. The only strong team his record is ATG against is England that's it. I too consider Lillee an ATG, even probably in the tier above Ashwin; but it's stupid to Ashwin isn't close due to incomplete record but Lillee is undisputed, by what? Peer ratings?? He is better than McGrath by that.
 
M

ma1978

International Debutant
How come Warne and Murali get away with their India performances? Shouldn’t we kick them off too by the same logic

Of course the whole logic is ridiculous and so off market, this thread is pointless.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
capt_Luffy said:
NZ was a minnow back then, close to WI now. He played plenty of Pakistan and WI too at home, his record is plain good to above average against them. The only strong team his record is ATG against is England that's it. I too consider Lillee an ATG, even probably in the tier above Ashwin; but it's stupid to Ashwin isn't close due to incomplete record but Lillee is undisputed, by what? Peer ratings?? He is better than McGrath by that.
Click to expand...
Ashwin doesn't have an incomplete record. He has a proven bad away record. If Lillee had 25 tests across SC and WI and never delivered anything worldclass in them, he would be removed as an ATG too.
 
H

HouHsiaoHsien

International Debutant
subshakerz said:
Not sure he makes mine.

In Ashwin's case, we can't ignore a large sample of non-performance in evaluating him away. I don't see why this is so hard to understand. He has 25 tests in SENA that we are comparing with a handful for Lillee in SL, Pak and WI.
Click to expand...
Leaving that aside, I’m just saying since Lillee doesn’t fulfill that part of the ATG criteria, he isn’t an ATG then right?
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
ma1978 said:
How come Warne and Murali get away with their India performances? Shouldn’t we kick them off too by the same logic

Of course the whole logic is ridiculous and so off market, this thread is pointless.
Click to expand...
Please check the exchange we had earlier on this and let me know if there are any follow up questions on that.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
subshakerz said:
Ashwin doesn't have an incomplete record. He has a proven bad record. If Lillee had 25 tests across SC and WI and never delivered anything worldclass in them, he would be removed as an ATG too.
Click to expand...
Lillee played 29 matches against Pakistan and West Indies combined, 25 at home; and averages close to 30 against them.
I will hardly call his performance against them at home better than Ashwin in Australia and England.
 
H

HouHsiaoHsien

International Debutant
subshakerz said:
Ashwin doesn't have an incomplete record. He has a proven bad record. If Lillee had 25 tests across SC and WI and never delivered anything worldclass in them, he would be removed as an ATG too.
Click to expand...
He could have had right. At the end of the day, no one knows. Hence doesn’t make sense to hold that against Ashwin
 
H

HouHsiaoHsien

International Debutant
subshakerz said:
No, I already said being incomplete away is not a disqualifier if the other elements are there.
Click to expand...
Ok leave that. But refer my prior post on Lillee not fulfilling a particular part of the ATG criteria you quoted(like 1st or 2nd XI), excludes him from being an ATG right?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Top