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Is Ravichandran Ashwin an ATG test bowler?

Is Ravichandran Ashwin an ATG test bowler?

  • Total voters
    75
H

howitzer

State Captain
Second Walsh and Garner as players who cemented ATG status in last quarter of their career. Holding no though. His best work was done earlier.
 
H

howitzer

State Captain
Probably a bit short of ATG but Macartney and Bedser are examples of players who became ATVG late on in their careers.
 
M

ma1978

International Debutant
Ashwin and Kohli considered undisputed ATGs by the entire cricketing world other than some analysis by checklist people on this site
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
subshakerz said:
So even if he was outperformed it was a fairly solid set of away performances. You already agree he was better away but that issue on sample of pitch variety is one reason I am hesitant to call Laker an ATG.
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Hardly it was fair sold. If you are competing for the 4th best spinner spot, you can't really afford to get outperformed on every away series by multiple spinners in spin friendly conditions. His South Africa performance is plain bad with context (opponents best batsman was Trevor Goddard, and Tayfield and Wardle walk through those line-ups. He took 11 wickets in 10 innings). It isn't really comparable to Ashwin in even Australia or England. His Australia performance is good, but again; not really anything special. His WI performance is the definition of average; though against strong batting, he wasn't really able to stand out much in either series; and got outperformed by ****ing Wilf Ferguson. As I said, Ashwin's SENA record is worse than Laker; but Laker played in widely easier conditions, so much so that almost this competition is pointless.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
ma1978 said:
Ashwin and Kohli considered undisputed ATGs by the entire cricketing world other than some analysis by checklist people on this site
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I have yet to see evidence of that consensus. Certainly don't get that feeling when Ashwin was last in SA, his last away tour. In fact, I bet it would be a split in peers and pundits right now between Ashwin and Lyon, who just seems to be improving.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
capt_Luffy said:
Hardly it was fair sold. If you are competing for the 4th best spinner spot, you can't really afford to get outperformed on every away series by multiple spinners in spin friendly conditions. His South Africa performance is plain bad with context (opponents best batsman was Trevor Goddard, and Tayfield and Wardle walk through those line-ups. He took 11 wickets in 10 innings). It isn't really comparable to Ashwin in even Australia or England. His Australia performance is good, but again; not really anything special. His WI performance is the definition of average; though against strong batting, he wasn't really able to stand out much in either series; and got outperformed by ****ing Wilf Ferguson. As I said, Ashwin's SENA record is worse than Laker; but Laker played in widely easier conditions, so much so that almost this competition is pointless.
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I don't disagree in essence but just to the degree you might be slightly uncharitable to Laker but overall we agree he is better away than Ashwin so no point rehashing this..
 
K

Kirkut

International Regular
subshakerz said:
One series is a alousy criteria to make an ATG. However, I would say Dravid has several mega series that help his case. But he falls short.
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The great series Dravid batted in were 1999 NZ tour, 2002 UK tour, 2003/04 Aus tour, 2004 Pak tour, 2006 Windies tour to name a few, I may have left out some of his outstanding batting here.

But his last tour of UK surpassed the definition of great, it was outstanding. The ball swung like the previous year when Pak toured UK, I never saw that kind of swing in England in the following years.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
howitzer said:
Probably a bit short of ATG but Macartney and Bedser are examples of players who became ATVG late on in their careers.
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Definitely. I am not saying you can't improve your standing. But ATG is an elite kind of greatness and it seems very hard for someone to not be marked a that level for the.majority of their career.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Kirkut said:
The great series Dravid batted in were 1999 NZ tour, 2002 UK tour, 2003/04 Aus tour, 2004 Pak tour, 2006 Windies tour to name a few, I may have left out some of his outstanding batting here.

But his last tour of UK surpassed the definition of great, it was outstanding. The ball swung like the previous year when Pak toured UK, I never saw that kind of swing in England in the following years.
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Yeah. Dravid might be the best ever bat in England. Perhaps with Waugh
 
H

HouHsiaoHsien

International Debutant
And Waugh dominated a lot of very weak Eng attacks. Dravid and Viv at the top, cause of the 2011 series for the former and 1976 series for the latter.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
subshakerz said:
I have yet to see evidence of that consensus. Certainly don't get that feeling when Ashwin was last in SA, his last away tour. In fact, I bet it would be a split in peers and pundits right now between Ashwin and Lyon, who just seems to be improving.
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What about Ashwin's last series in South Africa? You didn't watch that, did you? He was India's second best bowler in the match; and was tremendously mismanaged by Rohit. His numbers will look bad; but when he was bowling he was looking penetrative on a pitch the home team played without any spinners.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
capt_Luffy said:
What about Ashwin's last series in South Africa? You didn't watch that, did you? He was India's second best bowler in the match; and was tremendously mismanaged by Rohit. His numbers will look bad; but when he was bowling he was looking penetrative on a pitch the home team played without any spinners.
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S
My apologies I was referring to 2022. Not the solo test just now. Not even commenting about his bowling specifically but whether he was being perceived and discussed as if he was an ATG. Maybe I missed it this time of he was.
 
M

ma1978

International Debutant
subshakerz said:
I have yet to see evidence of that consensus. Certainly don't get that feeling when Ashwin was last in SA, his last away tour. In fact, I bet it would be a split in peers and pundits right now between Ashwin and Lyon, who just seems to be improving.
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no. Even on this board, there was no discussion on Ashwin / Lyon (who I think is underrated).

You have to acknowledge the mainstream consensus even if you don’t agree.

On pure value, amongst Indian cricketers Ashwin is probably third after Tendulkar and Kapil,
 
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