Zinzan
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So you're effectively saying the selectors made the right call at the time they did? Bizarre how differently we view the same thing.
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*Official* Australia tour of New Zealand Feb-Mar 2024
- Thread starter Qlder
- Start date
I love Daz, and he doesn't play that way. But that is tone deaf. It's insulting, it's not having any idea how the public will perceive it - which is important when you've just lost ANOTHER series to Australia.
Kiwi cricket greats rage at Black Cap's post-match comments
After losing the second Test match against Australia, Daryl Mitchell said there's more to cricket than the wins and losses.www.1news.co.nz
I mean, the loose theme of it is right - I felt incredibly proud and actually didn't care much about the 2019 World Cup final result at all. I wasn't about to be bogged down by a result, because we gave it our all. But when you drop catches, play dumb shots and lose a game you should've won, after being pummelled at the Basin, you don't really get to say that.
But **** me, yes you are defined by outcomes. You are hired and fired based on outcomes. You are a hero or zero based on outcomes. I don't know a profession in the world where you aren't.
Starfighter
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Lol, if only that was the case.
Zinzan
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Agree, and I wonder if he's stolen that whole "It's how we play the game" BS from BMac and England's public comments about their approach, thinking he's being in vogue.
I would like to join the crowd of people who think that it wasn't a horrible decision to make Southee captain, at all. Kane didn't want it (and wasn't Mike Brierley, let's be honest), Latham is ho-hum and I felt at the time giving it to Southee might make him more accountable. I think his on-field decision making - if you ignore his horrible use of DRS - has actually been OK. He is a well respected guy in the environment. I feel like his batting is a poor example to set, and that ethos showed through in the woeful collapse in the 3rd innings this week. But yeah, it's far from the dumbest thing we've done, for mine. There's just no good alternatives.
Hahaha OK, that's fair. It SHOULD be the case
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
I wouldn't necessarily say the selectors made the right call. But I think KW needed a break from the captaincy and after 6 years the time was probably right. Southee and Latham were the only real candidates - Mitchell and Blundell had only just established themselves in the side, Nicholls was already facing questions about his place and Conway had enough on his plate with trying to adapt to the opener's roll. Latham's results as captain weren't flash and you can go back and see plenty of people questioning whether he was the right guy. Maybe he was but I don't think it's as clear cut as you're suggesting.
Zinzan
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Again, my issue wasn't so much his captaincy skills, as much as I think those are mediocre, my issue as I've been harping on for a couple of years now is that appointment was always going to make him undroppable as I could clearly see his bowling deteriorating and that's exactly what's ended up happening. Was an accident waiting to happen.
That was the vibe I got. That's OK when you're England and you haven't lost a series in 2 years and almost won an Ashes series, but not when you almost lost to SA C, another pair of losses is rolled out v Australia amidst poor performances and selections, to add to woeful home Test losses against SA and Bangladesh + England in previous summers.
HeathDavisSpeed
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Black Caps coach says small margins decided Australia defeat
Black Caps head coach Gary Stead thinks the Test match could have gone either way against one of the best sides in the world.
As bland as one would expect. But at least no wind-based lies.
anonymouskefe
U19 12th Man
Black Caps coach says small margins decided Australia defeat
Black Caps head coach Gary Stead thinks the Test match could have gone either way against one of the best sides in the world.
"we haven't played them in a while" they also havent played us in a while then gary and they won 2-0
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
This is admittedly a fair point. I guess the idea was Southee would be good for 2 or 3 years as a bridging captain until someone like Phillips or Mitchell would be ready to take over, but this was always a risk given how long his career has been and how he's thrown himself into all three formats. Probably needed to retire from white ball to make it a safer bet, though I can understand why he'd be reluctant to do that given how little test cricket we play.
It's more bland that I'd expect. It's putrid. No mental block because apparently 4 years ago doesn't count and 1 win from 33 Tests is irrelevant, and basically the rest is saying we were close and could've won but didn't. That's sport.Black Caps coach says small margins decided Australia defeat
Black Caps head coach Gary Stead thinks the Test match could have gone either way against one of the best sides in the world.www.1news.co.nz
As bland as one would expect. But at least no wind-based lies.
I cannot stand for my favourite team to have Gary Stead as a coach. It is in poor hands.
Nintendo
Cricketer Of The Year
I kind of agree with stead here, ngl. NZ with a similiar team dropped a game to Bangladesh at home and where close as hell to losing to Sri Lanka. Plus you guys where a proper wide call of losing 2-0 to England.
This AUS team and England are similiar in terns of output, a 2-0 result that really could have been 1-1 with a bit of luck is probably what you'd expect. If you guys performed way worse against AUS than ENG ide accept mental block as an excuse, but similiar performances where put up against both sides.
If that's the sort of mentality the coach carries, where we expect 2-0 but maybe we'd get 1-1 with luck, then he should **** off and coach the U7 incredi-ball team.
I'm not sure how you reconciled that we didn't perform way worse against Australia? We competed in 3 Tests v England over there in 2022. We beat them at the Basin, with stronger performances than here in Chch. We won the big moments against England at the Basin, we choked to high **** against Australia. We beat England before the WTC over there. We beat them here in 2019. These two things are not the same when you compare them to a team we have beaten once in 33 Tests. I'll keep repeating that stat until it sinks in.
It's not good enough to say 'eh, we could've won another day'. That's bullshit and it's anti-progress. We lost for very tangible, controllable reasons. We fielded like **** - the most controllable skill there is, really. We lost wickets in clumps, which shows mental weakness. We picked the wrong team. If a bunch of skied balls landed in between fielders, OK. But we should have won, and Stead's woefully weak mentality grates me because it says to me that we're not going to get better because he isn't demanding it.
Nintendo
Cricketer Of The Year
Im going off recent form. That 2022 series was weird because they where using a duke's ball that was dog food after 10 overs. There's a reason all the 4-7 of NZ, ENG and IND randomly made a billion runs while the top 3 couldn't find a run bar the occasional pope knock.
Just on the "tangible, controllable" stuff. My initial post was more about stead's angle compared to the "mental block" angle. I agree focusing on tangible stuff is important, but a mental block isn't tanglible to begin with. NZ haven't won a home series vs AUS in what, 30 years? They've had 2-3 generations of player cycle through in that time, faced multiple generations of Australian teams in that period and 10's of coaches. Recently they also smashed Aus in the t20 WC to knock them out of semi's qualification. I don't see how a mental block of that type, over that period, can be worked on if it even exists.
I think we need to start picking players who have the mentality to play Australia. Players that will take them on head-first and play the sort of aggressive cricket that beats teams like that. We have guys like that in GP, Sears, Henry, and I feel like someone like Nathan Smith is similar. There's just no point picking Will Young. Tom Latham, you have to, because there's no other opener, but he's not helping you win anything in 2026-27 v a side he averages 26 against. I'd like us to identify talent, but also mindset. Who are the guys at domestic level who have the fire to not put up with this **** anymore?
I struggle with the thought that a mental block has to only involve players from the current generation and can't be passed down eras. South Africa's World Cup side would tell you that's not true. You're right, it's not tangible, but you can sense the 'I'm not sure if we're good enough' vibe when we play Australia...in long forms. T20s are a different mental capacity. Truth is, we play against Australia completely differently to how we play any other side in the world, no matter what form we're in.
I struggle with the thought that a mental block has to only involve players from the current generation and can't be passed down eras. South Africa's World Cup side would tell you that's not true. You're right, it's not tangible, but you can sense the 'I'm not sure if we're good enough' vibe when we play Australia...in long forms. T20s are a different mental capacity. Truth is, we play against Australia completely differently to how we play any other side in the world, no matter what form we're in.