*Official* England in India 2023/24 #CryMoreTour

[centurymaker]

Even if Bharat was still playing,we may have not seen that excellent comeback from India in ranchi.

Jaiswal was aggressive from the get go, pujara wouldn't score runs at Jaiswals pace. Remember that no Indian batter made above 34 when Jaiswal scored his first double ton.
Kuldeep was ridiculously good and an upgrade from axar who got belted 2nd innings vizag

At the very least, the series could have ended 3-2 India instead.

That was by far India's weakest lineup..

Rohit (out of form at the time)
Jaiswal
Gill (looked out of sorts)
Iyer
Patidar
Axar
Bharat
Ashwin

It's hardly a surprise no one got a 50 in the 1st innings besides Jaiswal, but most of them did have starts.

 

[centurymaker]

And if India bat - and catch - with a modicum of sense on Days 2 and 3 then England get absolutely pasted off the surface of the planet in the first game. So it cuts both ways. You can't just write off the fact that the other three games were extremely one-sided affairs and that England consistently struggled to take twenty wickets throughout the series (as often or not they were simply gifted).

I agree.

2nd Test- tbf it wasn't close, it only seemed close because bazball had created this imaginary perception that they could come back from any situation. Bumrah blew England away in the 1st innings itself giving India a decisive 143 run lead. And it was very unlikely they could come back from that.

3rd Test- England were 207-2 from 35 overs with Duckett scoring majority of the runs. Although they were still 238 runs behind, it "seemed" like they could get them given how fast Duckett was going (one man show) but change of day brought about change of plans that stiffled the run scoring leading to wickets. Plus Kuldeep was turning it square and was unlucky not to pick up 4-5 wickets. He was unplayable that morning. In the end, 450 ended up being a lot. Then India ran riot in the 3rd innings with 430/4 dec. England couldn't take wickets.

4th Test- England were 112-5 and then 245-7 managed to get 353. (Absence of Bumrah and lack of overs from Kuldeep allowed the tail to wag). India did something similar and got close to England's total. Just 46 behind. Then India learnt their lesson and bowled Ashwin up top and then Kuldeep a lot sooner and for a lot longer on a difficult pitch which made batting against him almost impossible. It wasn't surprising to see England fold for under 150.

5th Test- No contest

So in at least 3 of the tests India was comfortably better, with only Hyderabad and Ranchi being the close ones. England won one of them while India won the other. So 4-1 scoreline is a fair reflection of how the series has gone, unlike what the bazball media would have you believe.

 

[Spark]

Re: the 4th Test, even after everything you mention England still had a score of 192 to bowl at which whilst not much, is a score you probably would back Ashwin and Jadeja (or indeed Lyon and Murphy) to defend. But England's bowlers weren't able to do so. That really should call into question this emerging narrative of "oh England were so competitive, they totally would have won in 2023 but this Indian team is just such an upgrade over last year" (despite this India team being beset by problems and instability throughout and being absolutely there for the taking midway through the second Test).

 

[centurymaker]

Yeah if India had to defend 191 in the 4th test, they would have won probably 3/4 times. And even Lyon & co would defend that more often than not, especially against that Indian lineup with Patidar at 4.

Bashir looked good on that track but Lyon would have been a nightmare. There was no consistency in bounce.

 

[Nintendo]

India would have had to bowl England out within 30 overs or atheist do serious, tail enders are in damage while not letting England score fast to win defending that target assuming the same situation England defended in. That pitch flattened the **** out by the end, I doubt even ashwin/jadeja could have made it easy past a certain point.

 

[mackembhoy]

Surely Jimmy retires after the coming home series and just squeaks past Warne?

#Play Jimmy at the Oval

I wouldn't put it past him staying on till 25/26. Adelaide pink ball test as a final hurrah perhaps.

Stokes/Swann both talked up how he looks fitter than ever and McCullum specifically saying 18 months. Makes me think he will hang on till then.

He averaged 18.5 (Pak A 22) and 16.8 (NZ A 23) and they are our 6 final tests of this year before a massive gap before we play India H in Jun-Aug 2025

As a side note ICC seem to have removed the FTP 2023-2027 PDF document. You need to be in the media to access it now

 

[Spark]

India would have had to bowl England out within 30 overs or atheist do serious, tail enders are in damage while not letting England score fast to win defending that target assuming the same situation England defended in. That pitch flattened the **** out by the end, I doubt even ashwin/jadeja could have made it easy past a certain point.

That's really not true. The pitch died somewhat but it still offered more than enough if you landed it consistently in the right place and didn't bowl loose balls. There was turn, albeit slow turn, and inconsistent bounce. It was by no means a road and England showed no proficiency in this series for consistently scoring when the ball was seriously turning. They scored at less than 3 an over in the third innings when the pacers were yanked and they had to deal near exclusively with the spinners, there's no reason at all to think that wouldn't have been the case in the chase as well. Chasing 200 to win in India against the modern Indian attack simply isn't a thing.

 

[Nintendo]

That's really not true. The pitch died somewhat but it still offered more than enough if you landed it consistently in the right place and didn't bowl loose balls. There was turn, albeit slow turn, and inconsistent bounce. It was by no means a road and England showed no proficiency in this series for consistently scoring when the ball was seriously turning. They scored at less than 3 an over in the third innings when the pacers were yanked and they had to deal near exclusively with the spinners, there's no reason at all to think that wouldn't have been the case in the chase as well. Chasing 200 to win in India against the modern Indian attack simply isn't a thing.

Fascist.

 

[centurymaker]

India would have had to bowl England out within 30 overs or atheist do serious, tail enders are in damage while not letting England score fast to win defending that target assuming the same situation England defended in. That pitch flattened the **** out by the end, I doubt even ashwin/jadeja could have made it easy past a certain point.

England would have needed to last minimum 50 overs if not more. They can't score at 5 or 6 an over in such situations on such tracks.

Pitch didn't flatten out... spinners were of different class. On one hand you have Ashwin and then Kuldeep bowling like Shane Warne ripping it square and then you have fresh from county Hartley and Bashir... What do you expect?

We saw the same thing happen at Dharamshala, Indian spinners were all over the English batters beating both their edges turning both ways on day 1 and day 3, meanwhile when England were bowling it was almost a road.

 

[honestbharani]

this is all hindsight and we were all sort of resigned on Day 2, but it's been the trend for a number of years now.

I actually mentioned that this team always comes back from tough days really well in the platinum lounge. But it was that day when there were idiotic complaints about gambhiring when there were like 2 posts like that, so I did not post it here.

 

[Arachnodouche]

Chasing 200 to win in India against the modern Indian attack simply isn't a thing.

Yeah, but if Bazball England are good at any thing, it's "fluking" out a chase in exactly those conditions. All you need is one guy to come off on the day and you're within touching distance.

 

[Sunil1z]

Agree or disagree?

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

On one hand you have Ashwin and then Kuldeep bowling like Shane Warne ripping it square and then you have fresh from county reserves Hartley and Bashir... What do you expect?

Fixed that for you.

Our spinners did better than could reasonably have been expected from them, but they were never going to be on the same level as India's spinners. Ashwin and Jadeja probably have more Test wickets than Bashir and Hartley had bowled overs in FC cricket prior to the tour.

 

[honestbharani]

Re: the 4th Test, even after everything you mention England still had a score of 192 to bowl at which whilst not much, is a score you probably would back Ashwin and Jadeja (or indeed Lyon and Murphy) to defend. But England's bowlers weren't able to do so. That really should call into question this emerging narrative of "oh England were so competitive, they totally would have won in 2023 but this Indian team is just such an upgrade over last year" (despite this India team being beset by problems and instability throughout and being absolutely there for the taking midway through the second Test).

I am not sure why it has to be an either or though? I do think its objectively true that our batting line up, even without Virat, is now better than what we had against Australia and so is our bowling, with Bumrah back.

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

Agree or disagree?View attachment 39616

Disagree because he clearly our best pacer on tour. There were times it was weird Stokes didn't bowl him more.

 

[centurymaker]

Yeah, but if Bazball England are good at any thing, it's "fluking" out a chase in exactly those conditions. All you need is one guy to come off on the day and you're within touching distance.

Maybe yes against Ashwin, Jadeja and Axar.

But not against Kuldeep, Ashwin & Jadeja on a difficult pitch. Unlikely even with bazball.

Half them batters even struggled to pick him from hand. For instance, he took 3 wickets off his googly alone in the 1st innings of 5th Test. Pope, Bairstow and Stokes didn't have a clue which way the ball was turning that far into the series.

 

[Nintendo]

England would have needed to last minimum 50 overs if not more. They can't score at 5 or 6 an over in such situations on such tracks.

Pitch didn't flatten out... spinners were of different class. On one hand you have Ashwin and then Kuldeep bowling like Shane Warne ripping it square and then you have fresh from county Hartley and Bashir... What do you expect?

We saw the same thing happen at Dharamshala, Indian spinners were all over the English batters beating both their edges turning both ways on day 1 and day 3, meanwhile when England were bowling it was almost a road.

Fascist.

 

[Xix2565]

Agree or disagree?View attachment 39616

I don't know about protecting Anderson, but it's a big issue for England that their experienced pacers don't bowl a lot of overs away from home in these sorts of conditions. Even Siraj despite being poor put in a shift and bowled more percentage of the overs for India than Anderson managed.

 

[Ashwinashwath]

Anderson was played for the records but still he did well in one test if i remember it right where he picked 5 for the match. The veteran grandmaster deserved his 700th scalp in India.

 

[mackembhoy]

Agree or disagree?View attachment 39616

I mean looking at the amount of balls bowled via here Today's Cricket Match | Cricket Update | Cricket News | ESPNcricinfo .

The only response to that person is