Steve Smith vs Ricky Ponting

[centurymaker]

Ponting debuted in 1995 btw. Half way in the much talked about 90s. Here are a few of his innings from early in his career against top class bowlers:

88 in 1996 vs Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop at the Gabba

103 in 1997 vs Donald, Pollock at MCG Link here

104 in 1999 vs Ambrose & Walsh at Bridgetown

96 & 51 in 1999 vs Murali & Vaas - low scoring match in Kandy Link here - for those who think he can't play spin

105* in 1999 vs Murali & Vass in SL Another link

197 in 1999 vs Wasim & Akhtar at WACA Link here

In 1999 Ponting was 24.

 

[Bolo.]

What do people rate as Pontings best series? Maybe the series against SA at home in 2005/2006?

There has to be a significantly better candidate than that. I think the bowling was:

Pollock: Blew his back out in his previous series and bowling about 15km an hour. 2006 is when he actually tried offspin without slowing down too much.
Ntini: averages about 37 away.
Nel: mediocre
Kallis: mediocre, and not the bowler he was in the 90s/early 2000s
Someone else worse than the above?

 

[Raz0r6ack]

Random crazy Smith stat was that from the final Ashes Test in 2015 to the 4th Ashes Test in 2019, Smith played 9 Tests vs Stuart Broad and scored 1500 runs @ 136 with 7 hundreds.

Just absolute domination of England. They had no answer.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

There has to be a significantly better candidate than that. I think the bowling was:

Pollock: Blew his back out in his previous series and bowling about 15km an hour. 2006 is when he actually tried offspin without slowing down too much.
Ntini: averages about 37 away.
Nel: mediocre
Kallis: mediocre, and not the bowler he was in the 90s/early 2000s
Someone else worse than the above?

Maybe his series at home against Agarkar, Nehra, Pathan, and Kumble was his best

 

[The_CricketUmpire]

Smith>Border >Ponting >Waugh is the correct order.

I think it's probably a matter of opinion.

 

[Slifer]

I won't hold Smith's late career decline against him if it happens while he continues to open for Australia. Clearly, atm he's batting out of position I guess for the good of the team. Anything else ie he goes back to batting at 4 and he continues his slump then naturally yes, he may be downgraded some. If he retired right now, I'd put him above all Australians except for the Don (and maybe Greg Chappell).

 

[centurymaker]

I won't hold Smith's late career decline against him if it happens while he continues to open for Australia. Clearly, atm he's batting out of position I guess for the good of the team. Anything else ie he goes back to batting at 4 and he continues his slump then naturally yes, he may be downgraded some. If he retired right now, I'd put him above all Australians except for the Don (and maybe Greg Chappell).

He's been struggling at no.4 too but moving to no.1 has made it worse

 

[The_CricketUmpire]

It was Steve Smith who asked if he could open the batting & the answer he recieved was YES. In a stronger era of Aust cricket, he would of been sent packing with a NO & would of been told to stay at number 4 in the batting order. Oh well as the old saying goes: "You make your bed, you lie in it"

 

[centurymaker]

Because he's been trying to rediscover his batting form, he felt opening the batting would be beneficial for him. He had asked team management about opening the batting as early as the Ashes.

At 2 down when he would come in to bat, teams would try to stiffle him with certain field settings and he felt bogged down and that he hadn't been doing so well. With opening the batting he said he would get to start against traditional fields giving him plenty of run scoring opportunities. It made sense. He didn't believe it would be difficult to survive the new ball as he had done it numerous times before when batting at no.3 or losing wickets early. He felt he had usually done well on those occasions before.

I think opening the batting is going to help him come to terms with his decline sooner, because it is showing him up more than at No.4, so I expect him to do something about it, perhaps even retire sooner than expected.

 

[ma1978]

This Ricky Ponting revisionism is nuts

 

[Bolo.]

Maybe his series at home against Agarkar, Nehra, Pathan, and Kumble was his best

I'm sure he had big series against quality attacks. Maybe early career, when there were more around?

Annihilating mediocre attacks is a useful skill as well tbf, especially when attached to strong batting lineups.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I'm sure he had big series against quality attacks. Maybe early career, when there were more around?

Annihilating mediocre attacks is a useful skill as well tbf, especially when attached to strong batting lineups.

I was really searching for a more deserving candidate; but can't really find one over that SA one. Maybe Ashes 2006, but bowling was dire there as well; but I certainly believe there are better Punter series than 2003 BGT. Which one will you suggest??

 

[Spark]

Because he's been trying to rediscover his batting form, he felt opening the batting would be beneficial for him. He had asked team management about opening the batting as early as the Ashes.

At 2 down when he would come in to bat, teams would try to stiffle him with certain field settings and he felt bogged down and that he hadn't been doing so well. With opening the batting he said he would get to start against traditional fields giving him plenty of run scoring opportunities. It made sense. He didn't believe it would be difficult to survive the new ball as he had done it numerous times before when batting at no.3 or losing wickets early. He felt he had usually done well on those occasions before.

I think opening the batting is going to help him come to terms with his decline sooner, because it is showing him up more than at No.4, so I expect him to do something about it, perhaps even retire sooner than expected.

The central question is whether his totally-out-of-control trigger movement across the crease, which is very obviously caused by him opening and being far too amped up against the new ball, is a permanent thing or whether it's something he can fix in the off-season where (hopefully) he has a long break to work these things out. As it is, he's walking so far outside off stump that frankly he seems like a walking wicket to anything vaguely straight - and is nicking off to wide balls too - but the one innings where he hasn't done that, at Brisbane, he looked imperious - if you watch highlights you'll notice that his trigger movement was much smaller and more composed there than it was in this NZ series:



Compare this to the way he batted yesterday where you could see all of leg stump and part of middle when he was setting up at the crease. So I don't think it's completely settled yet whether he's fallen off a cliff or not.

 

[Bolo.]

I was really searching for a more deserving candidate; but can't really find one over that SA one. Maybe Ashes 2006, but bowling was dire there as well; but I certainly believe there are better Punter series than 2003 BGT. Which one will you suggest??

Wrong person to ask. I only saw him play RSA. Looking at his series averages, maybe Pak 02 or SL 99. IDK the context though.

 

[ma1978]

The central question is whether his totally-out-of-control trigger movement across the crease, which is very obviously caused by him opening and being far too amped up against the new ball, is a permanent thing or whether it's something he can fix in the off-season where (hopefully) he has a long break to work these things out. As it is, he's walking so far outside off stump that frankly he seems like a walking wicket to anything vaguely straight - and is nicking off to wide balls too - but the one innings where he hasn't done that, at Brisbane, he looked imperious - if you watch highlights you'll notice that his trigger movement was much smaller and more composed there than it was in this NZ series:

View attachment 39599

Compare this to the way he batted yesterday where you could see all of leg stump and part of middle when he was setting up at the crease. So I don't think it's completely settled yet whether he's fallen off a cliff or not.

or he’s just a guy with great hand I coordination and unorthodox technique who got old.

 

[Sunil1z]

I saw yesterday’s dismissal on Twitter and majority comments were that a peak Smith would never miss those deliveries. So there is a chance that as he goes older , his hand eye coordination game declines . Happened with Richards , Sehwag, Hayden , Gilchrist etc

 

[Cricket Bliss]

Morkel was genuinely awesome in 2015 as was Abbott

Yes… Extremely awesome in 2015

Morkel 19 wkts from 8 matches
Abbott 8 wkts from 3 matches

both don’t have atleast 3 wkts per match and they were genuinely awesome

 

[capt_Luffy]

Yes… Extremely awesome in 2015

Morkel 19 wkts from 8 matches
Abbott 8 wkts from 3 matches

both don’t have atleast 3 wkts per match and they were genuinely awesome

From where did you get that Morkel data?? In 2015 he took 9 wickets from 3 matches in India at just over 20 runs per wicket; Abbott took 6 in 2 at around 17.....

 

[Spark]

From where did you get that Morkel data?? In 2015 he took 9 wickets from 3 matches in India at just over 20 runs per wicket; Abbott took 6 in 2 at around 17.....

Wasn't this the series one of the first examples of India rolling out the current generation of turners and SA had a colossal whinge about it afterwards?

 

[capt_Luffy]

Wasn't this the series one of the first examples of India rolling out the current generation of turners and SA had a colossal whinge about it afterwards?

I was quite young back then so can't really remember older many older ones; but as far as I can remember; it was among the first such series. Tahir and Harmer were very efficient; Morkel and Abbott were great and I very vividly remember a great effort in an extreme Nagpur turner from Amla and ABD (though mostly by padding).