Tendulkar and McGrath or Smith and Hadlee

[kyear2]

So it's (NFL) draft season and besides being almost as fun as the season itself, the break downs and evaluations also makes me think about my AT XI.

Sachin is just about our consensus choice for best after Bradman or at least on the shortest of shortlists. Similarly McGrath is seen by most of the community as at worst the second best bowler ever and only after Marshall.

But with that being said Smith is seen by some (myself not included), as the BAB and again on the short list for said title and not far behind and in the same tier as Tendulkar. Likewise Hadlee is seen at worse 3rd best ever and right behind McGrath and definely in the same tier.

In addition to the above, Hadlee would play a similar role to Mcgrath with the ball, both being immensely accurate and consistent. Hadlee did play on far more helpful home pitches, but did have to carry the load alone. Sachin and Smith also have similar styles and I believe rate of scoring and provide a consistent and calming role in the middle order. Sachin is more Orthodox, but they both get / got the job done.

But Paddles averages almost 4 times as much with the bat compared to Pigeon and could provide a viable option at no. 8 in the batting lineup, with again, little if any drop off to the bowling. Again CW rates them 2 and 3. Yes I do prefer Glenn for various reasons (all 3 pacers would be from different eras, that extra bounce, driver of a winning dynasty etc), the extra run production is hard to ignore and allows for no weaknesses in the batting lineup with batting all the way down to 10/ 11 depending on perspective or opinion of Steyn (again for my 11, not CWs)

With Smith, he is simply put one of the great fielders of the game and to me (and I know at least a couple posters disagree) one of the greatest slip fielders ever, capable of game turning catches. Yes, he drops a few, but they seem to be getting fewer. Having him at 3rd for the less frequent but almost always more difficult grabs would be an asset and he would move out when only 2 are deployed. He would also stand at first for the Warne which is invaluable to a quality leggie in particular, and definely a specialist position and he's almost peerless there.

Both are first (or at worst 2nd) alternates based on primary skill alone, and the secondary skill provided just pushes them over the top, well for me at least.

But what says the community.

 

[Bolo.]

To win a game: Smith and Hadlee. This comes comes with a caveat that I don't really think you should be judging active players at this level.

To improve a team over their careers: Sachin and Mcgrath. 24 years is about as useful as you can get.

 

[kyear2]

To win a game: Smith and Hadlee. This comes comes with a caveat that I don't really think you should be judging active players at this level.

To improve a team over their careers: Sachin and Mcgrath. 24 years is about as useful as you can get.

More of a skills comp rather than a longevity one.

 

[Bolo.]

More of a skills comp rather than a longevity one.

Longevity is a massively important skill.

If you just want to look at them at their best, Smith>=Sachin and Hadlee>>Mcgrath

 

[Slifer]

Hadlee’s batting adds a lot as he is negligibly 'worse' than McGrath. Sachin greater than Smith (possibly) and it's marginal imo. Overall Smith/ Hadlee >Sachin/McGrath

 

[Coronis]

Longevity is a massively important skill.

If you just want to look at them at their best, Smith>=Sachin and Hadlee>>Mcgrath

By at their best do you mean in terms of match/series or just peak performance in general?

 

[Bolo.]

By at their best do you mean in terms of match/series or just peak performance in general?

Both.

 

[Coronis]

Both.

Defs think I disagree on both then tbh. Smith’s peak and individual performance easily better than Tendulkar. Hadlee definitely more destructive for an individual match/series but I’d say their peaks are close. Wouldn’t say >> for sure just > lol

 

[Line and Length]

A tough call. My initial though was Tendulkar/McGrath - simply because I rate them both marginally above their opposite number. However, for sheer impact in a game I see Smith/Hadlee as more likely match winners.
I agree with @kyear2 's comment regarding current players in these type of discussions.

 

[Bolo.]

Defs think I disagree on both then tbh. Smith’s peak and individual performance easily better than Tendulkar. Hadlee definitely more destructive for an individual match/series but I’d say their peaks are close. Wouldn’t say >> for sure just > lol

Fair enough if you want to remove the '=' from Sachin and Smith. Not a that big a gap though- Sachin also had some awesome matches, and Smith's peak coming on drop in pitches needs to be accounted for.

Hadlee wins as a bowler alone on peak/best performances. His batting makes him>>, at least.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

I'd go Smith and Hadlee simply for the extra batting of Hadlee and the fielding of Smith.

 

[subshakerz]

Smith and Hadlee for Hadlee's batting. Fairly straightforward.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Smith and Hadlee for Hadlee's batting. Fairly straightforward.

This. Although the other pair are very marginally better in their primarily disciplines

 

[kyear2]

Longevity is a massively important skill.

If you just want to look at them at their best, Smith>=Sachin and Hadlee>>Mcgrath

Yeah, at this level they are all great. But this is more about plucking players at their peak to play in a series or a couple of series.

Not to revert back to football, but Emmitt and Curtis Martin played longer than Barry or Jim Brown, wouldn't say either is better just because of longevity.

But interesting that you believe that Smith and Hadlee are both better based on primary skills alone @ peak / best.

 

[kyear2]

Smith and Hadlee for Hadlee's batting. Fairly straightforward.

Only touching on Hadlee's batting while Smith even in this series has changed games in the field. Even the versatility at leg slip to make that snare look simple. He's definely a weapon as well.

 

[Coronis]

Fair enough if you want to remove the '=' from Sachin and Smith. Not a that big a gap though- Sachin also had some awesome matches, and Smith's peak coming on drop in pitches needs to be accounted for.

Hadlee wins as a bowler alone on peak/best performances. His batting makes him>>, at least.

Well obviously if you are including batting its no contest

 

[subshakerz]

Yeah, at this level they are all great. But this is more about plucking players at their peak to play in a series or a couple of series.

Not to revert back to football, but Emmitt and Curtis Martin played longer than Barry or Jim Brown, wouldn't say either is better just because of longevity.

But interesting that you believe that Smith and Hadlee are both better based on primary skills alone @ peak / best.

Peak Smith and Hadlee then fairly easily.

 

[subshakerz]

Only touching on Hadlee's batting while Smith even in this series has changed games in the field. Even the versatility at leg slip to make that snare look simple. He's definely a weapon as well.

McGrath is an amazing fielder in his own right.

 

[Bolo.]

Yeah, at this level they are all great. But this is more about plucking players at their peak to play in a series or a couple of series.

Not to revert back to football, but Emmitt and Curtis Martin played longer than Barry or Jim Brown, wouldn't say either is better just because of longevity.

But interesting that you believe that Smith and Hadlee are both better based on primary skills alone @ peak / best.

Smith＞than Sachin on shorter timelines is a pretty common CW opinion. Sachin's quality comes from consistency and peaking longer than other bats, not harder.

Hadlee vs Mcgrath on shorter timelines is not something I've remember seeing discussed, but it shouldn't be a surprising opinion. Hadlee had a lot more monster games and series. Had a stupid peak too. Crazy amount of wickets and average, and basically had 1 mediocre series in a decade.

 

[subshakerz]

Hadlee during his peak in the mid-80s would also be ahead of McGrath. If we take peaks, this isn't close.