Who is the worst player of all time that would be selected in every XI in history?

[Athlai]

Not sure he would, but if he did, wouldn't the answer then be Langer?

Whos worse Martyn or Langer? Cos there must he a worse opener than Langer that still is better in the middle than Martyn

 

[TheJediBrah]

Whos worse Martyn or Langer? Cos there must he a worse opener than Langer that still is better in the middle than Martyn

Probably about the same

 

[honestbharani]

Is it better to have been the best worst player or the worst best player in any 11?

 

[mr_mister]

Actually what do we think of MacGill as a decent shout?

We saw him actually picked in that great Australian side over Warne once so it's plausible he could make any Aussie XI from that era

And better than Harper for 80s Windies

 

[Athlai]

India aren't picking MacGill

 

[ataraxia]

We saw him actually picked in that great Australian side over Warne once so it's plausible he could make any Aussie XI from that era

But he wouldn't be.

Anyhow he wouldn't beat both Ashwin and Jadeja for India overseas.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Actually what do we think of MacGill as a decent shout?

We saw him actually picked in that great Australian side over Warne once so it's plausible he could make any Aussie XI from that erap0

And better than Harper for 80s Windies

Wouldn't have got a game for Australia when they had O'Reilly and Grimmett.

 

[morgieb]

Wouldn't have got a game for Australia when they had O'Reilly and Grimmett.

Those two didn’t interlap that much and our seamers in the 30’s were terrible. I could still see him getting some games. Think India of the 21st Century would be tougher (with the caveat that DRS is crack for spinners).

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

Thing with Tallon is that despite underperforming with the bat at Test level he was a fantastic keeper. He makes a number of pre-Gilchrist Australian ATG XI’s, for example. And with Miller and Lindwall his mediocre batting can be masked. No great spinner a bigger flaw really.

War probably stopped from having the absolute best team that the Invincibles could field. With no War, we might have seen O’Reilly, Lindwall, Miller, Johnston together to go with better Bradman and more than decent Batting lineup.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

War probably stopped from having the absolute best team that the Invincibles could field. With no War, we might have seen O’Reilly, Lindwall, Miller, Johnston together to go with better Bradman and more than decent Batting lineup.

In 1946 Australia sans Bradman had an attack of Lindwall, Miller, Toshack, O'Reilly, McCool in their only test against NZ before the 70s.

NZ got crushed by an innings but Cowie took 6-40.
NZ 42 & 54
Aus 199/8 dec

 

[TheJediBrah]

Actually what do we think of MacGill as a decent shout?

We saw him actually picked in that great Australian side over Warne once so it's plausible he could make any Aussie XI from that era

And better than Harper for 80s Windies

He was picked for Australia over Warne in like 1 series when Warne had a shoulder reconstruction. If the criteria is that loose then much worse players than MacGill would "make every team".

MacGill clearly doesn't qualify as "would be selected in every xi in history" given that he literally wasn't selected for his home team for 90% of his career. Playing occasional games in special circumstances definitely shouldn't count

 

[Flem274*]

Langer was much better than Martyn. I get it, Martyn was good to watch, but an opener averaging 45ish against a middle order player nudging into the 40s only has one winner in terms of scarcity.

I'll have to make a mental note to call Martyn the Australian Ian Bell at some emotionally charged point. Next Ashes should do.

 

[Silver Silva]

Langer was much better than Martyn. I get it, Martyn was good to watch, but an opener averaging 45ish against a middle order player nudging into the 40s only has one winner in terms of scarcity.

I'll have to make a mental note to call Martyn the Australian Ian Bell at some emotionally charged point. Next Ashes should do.

Martyn averaged 46

 

[TheJediBrah]

Langer was much better than Martyn. I get it, Martyn was good to watch, but an opener averaging 45ish against a middle order player nudging into the 40s only has one winner in terms of scarcity.

I'll have to make a mental note to call Martyn the Australian Ian Bell at some emotionally charged point. Next Ashes should do.

Langer averaged 50 as opener. Martyn also just about averaged 50 since his return in 2000, not counting his 7 Tests as a 21 year old. Even counting them he averages over 46. "Nudging into the 40s" that's rancid bait

 

[Burgey]

I'll have to make a mental note to call Martyn the Australian Ian Bell at some emotionally charged point. Next Ashes should do.

That won't be emotionally charged. England can't win a test here.

 

[Flem274*]

That won't be emotionally charged. England can't win a test here.

you forgot the most important victory of all to england.

the moral victory.

brought to you by the man who pulled a captaincy coup and the man who should be in prison.

 

[Flem274*]

Langer averaged 50 as opener. Martyn also just about averaged 50 since his return in 2000, not counting his 7 Tests as a 21 year old. Even counting them he averages over 46. "Nudging into the 40s" that's rancid bait

I forgot what Martyn averaged tbh. I thought he was just above the Mark Waugh number.

I stand by the broader point though, which is I'll take the opener over the middle order player every time if I have to choose just one because it is so much harder to find world class openers. A point in Martyn's favour is in that era good openers were at their most abundant in history and Langer was a touch below the best of his era.

 

[Burgey]

you forgot the most important victory of all to england.

the moral victory.

brought to you by the man who pulled a captaincy coup and the man who should be in prison.

Truly proof that one man's recidivism is another's rehabilitation.

 

[Burgey]

I forgot what Martyn averaged tbh. I thought he was just above the Mark Waugh number.

I stand by the broader point though, which is I'll take the opener over the middle order player every time if I have to choose just one because it is so much harder to find world class openers. A point in Martyn's favour is in that era good openers were at their most abundant in history and Langer was a touch below the best of his era.

One thing often overlooked through the Waugh era is the way he had previously fringe/ average players back themselves and become better players. Both Martyn and Langer benefited from the "back yourself" approach Waugh brought to captaincy, as did Hayden.

There's a lot of talk about Stokes doing something similar with England's current team, but as with everything, Australia did it first and did it better.

 

[GIMH]

That won't be emotionally charged. England can't win a test here.

I feel Martin Place will beckon this time in two years