NZ domestic season 2023/24

[SteveNZ]

Larsen was a middle order bat for Wellington (no 6) in the 80s, while Astle started for Canterbury as an economical ODI bowling allrounder.

I didn't know either of these. Makes sense, Astles seamers were deadly at times.

 

[_Ed_]

Yovich was a good one too. Eeked everything he could out of his domestic career by becoming an opening bat when his bowling declined with age. Wasn't even bowling at all for the last couple of seasons.

Still a beast in Whangarei club cricket, according to my partner's brother.

 

[Prince EWS]

Still a beast in Whangarei club cricket, according to my partner's brother.

Haha that's awesome! Does he roll the arm over as well?

 

[_Ed_]

He didn't say anything about bowling - I should ask about that next time I see him. But apparently he was repeatedly finding (and clearing) the boundary while batting.

 

[Prince EWS]

He didn't say anything about bowling - I should ask about that next time I see him. But apparently he was repeatedly finding (and clearing) the boundary while batting.

I'm hoping he converted to leggies or something.

 

[NZTailender]

Funny you mention him, I thought of him in relation to the mention of Todd Astle. Derek was a hell of a talent as a teenager, scored a premier club hundred on debut, then decided he wanted to be a stodgy opener like Astle. He actually modelled himself on Todd's game. Even Todd decided he didn't want to be that Derek wasted a few years playing that way and squandering talent, was a tourist on a Windies T20I tour but didn't play, then left it too late with a late career realisation he was better wacking it.

The current undergrads of keeping are struggling. Fletcher has fallen off a cliff. Cleaver hasn't been a big performer for years, Chu is ok but not dominant, and Seifert is a hack and a sub par gloveman.

As an Otago supporter was always a fan of de Boorder. His brother, whilst not unlucky to not play for BCs, sort of remains a what-if for me.

Also thought one of the Parlanes would jag a cap before their careers finished, albeit as an injury cover.

 

[The Hutt Rec]

I think now, the only positions likely to have unlucky not to be blackcaps is the wicket keeper.

You can be the 3rd or 4th best keeper/bat in the country and be damn good player - but go through career without being a blackcap.

The last one to do this was Derek de Boorder.

Cam Fletcher is currently on target. He's been in some squads recently but not actually played any blackcaps games yet.

Sort of the opposite of the pre BJ era when every wicketkeeper under the sun seemed to get a go when McCullum hung up the gloves. McGlashan, Reece Young, Hopkins, Van Wyk … have I missed any?

 

[The Hutt Rec]

What did you think of it?

Yeah it was pretty cool, for a stadium for a smaller area like Napier, not too bad! I don’t think I’d ever realised it was such a giant U of stands with the bank down one end. Was a great view in the Harris stand, it felt really close to the action.

There was also a good moment to start proceedings, we didn’t know where the entrance was so just followed some guy walking through some gates, think it ended up being the media or food truck entrance, coz we were straight in without buying tickets.

Was a good game too. Was fun watching the young buck Abbas and the old dog Bracewell in partnership. Abbas sprinting between wickets and trying to smash absolutely everything, Bracewell walking between wickets without even turning around to look if Abbas was coming back, and calmly waiting for the right ball which he put away without fail.

 

[Immenso]

The Larsen transformation wasn't that radical.

He was a middle order bits and pieces all rounder at the start of his career and he was a bits and pieces all rounder at the end of his career. But the batting focus gradually decreased. I guess he was transformed into a a specialist bowler who bats a bit, by year 2 of his blackcaps career - in terms of role identification. But he wasn't doing anything different.

When he started for Wellington he would bat anywhere from 6 to 8 as there were equally skilled but more experienced players also in those positions (Evan Gray and Erv McSweeney). But he would always bowl his full allotment of overs as 4th or 5th bowler.

When he debuted for the backcaps in the 1989/90 season he was selected as a 6/7 allrounder in ODI cricket. Seen as finally a likely replacement for the Coney role after a 3 year search for his replacement since his retirement. But his batting absolutely stunk the house down, while his bowling was surprisingly effective, even at the highest level.

He was dropped after that Rothmans series in 89/90. Coz he couldn't bat.

He wasn't in the team at start of 90/91 season when NZ were playing the WSC tri-series in Australia.

In that series - NZ had a balance of 4 seamers (Petrie, Pringle, Morrison, Watson) with Chris Harris debuting and now filling that role they wanted Larsen to do the season before.

It was a weird season structure. Where the almost entire pool section of the WSC was played before Christmas, NZ's entrie pool games were played and we returned home. Our players returned home and played the Shell Cup.

Meanwhile, Australia and England then played Boxing Day and Sydney test and then played IIRC their last 2 remaining WSC games. It wasn't until this stage that we knew NZ had qualified for the final.

Anyway. During this month back in NZ playing the Shell Cup - the penny was dropping with Martin Crowe of a way to approach ODI cricket. During this time he was openiong the batting for Wellington (whihc he wasn't doing for NZ) along with Richard Reid. They were dominating the first 15 overs in a way we had never seen before - and was to be repeated at a higher level a year later with Greatbatch and Latham at the world cup.

Anyway. When NZ returned to play the best of 3 finals. They had a quite different team. Crowe elevated himself to open. Richard Reid came into the squad (also as opener). Gavin Larsen came into the squad.

Crowe's theory was to stack the batting - and (hopefully bat first) score quickly in the first 15 overs with him and Reid. Then consolidate for a big high-200s score. Then bowl dibbly-dobbly's (including Crowe returning to the bowling crease for first time in about 4 years) and try to slowly strangle the chase. It didn't work. Aussie wickets were too 'true' for the dobblies. And Richard Reid struggled at the higher level to score at anything like the rate he could at Shell Cup. But Larsen was solid.

But the blueprint for the next decade of NZ ODI cricket was born with the identification that Larsen (and players like him) on bowling alone was good enough to build your tactics around.

 

[Immenso]

Wow. Don't know how that got to be such a long post.

How did "Larsen didn't transform (much)" turn into a post on how Crowe set the benchplate for NZ's ODI tactics for the next 10 years partly because of playing with Gavin Larsen at domestic level.

 

[BackFootPunch]

The current undergrads of keeping are struggling. Fletcher has fallen off a cliff. Cleaver hasn't been a big performer for years, Chu is ok but not dominant, and Seifert is a hack and a sub par gloveman.

This is fine though because Mitch Hay is the real deal.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Loved a bit of Joey Yovich and Graeme Aldridge. Brandon Hiini too - who was pretty useful for a couple of seasons.

Harry Boam could have been useful. Much better player than, say, Luke Georgeson.

Yeah it was pretty cool, for a stadium for a smaller area like Napier, not too bad! I don’t think I’d ever realised it was such a giant U of stands with the bank down one end. Was a great view in the Harris stand, it felt really close to the action.

It wasn't a U shape in the past. Only the (I think) North and West sides had stands. I think the South stand was built for the RWC? I've definitely got some pictures of a game there pre-South Stand against either Zimbabwe or the West Indies. I suspect the West Indies.

 

[The Hutt Rec]

It wasn't a U shape in the past. Only the (I think) North and West sides had stands. I think the South stand was built for the RWC? I've definitely got some pictures of a game there pre-South Stand against either Zimbabwe or the West Indies. I suspect the West Indies.

Yeah I was reading that the Graeme Lowe Stand was built in 2009 or so for the upcoming union and cricket world cups.

So was it an embankment before that?

 

[_Ed_]

It wasn't a U shape in the past. Only the (I think) North and West sides had stands. I think the South stand was built for the RWC? I've definitely got some pictures of a game there pre-South Stand against either Zimbabwe or the West Indies. I suspect the West Indies.

Yeah, that stand was definitely built for the RWC. I remember Chris Gayle hitting sixes into people's backyards on that side of the ground before it was built.

That new-ish stand never seems to have anyone sitting in it, even for those recent Black Caps games there.

 

[Immenso]

Yeah I was reading that the Graeme Lowe Stand was built in 2009 or so for the upcoming union and cricket world cups.

So was it an embankment before that?

There was a small wooden stand there before that they knocked it down for the new Lowe stand. It only stretched from about the 22m to 22m on a rugby field. So, no U shape. In the gaps it was just flat. No embankment.

I remember in the 2004 test v Sri Lanka when Vincent got his 200, In that close up camera view of the players between deliveries, that spot that Sonny Shaw guy likes to get himself seated in. At Napier back then that spot was a tin fence in the background backing on to someone's back yard. And they had a trampoline in the yard. And I just remember hours of watching a 10ish year old girl jumping up and down, appearing in-and-out of view from behind this fence. Oblivious to it all.

Actually, IIRC, that test match was played in Late Autumn. From Monday to Friday. To not interfere with Sky's rugby scheduling by that time of the year. So the trampolining didn't start until after school finished at 3. So, "hours of watching" was a bit of an exaggeration. An evening session quirk, only.

 

[NZTailender]

Brandon Hiini too -

Absolute gun for me in one of the ICC games[/nztailendermeme]

 

[The Hutt Rec]

That new-ish stand never seems to have anyone sitting in it, even for those recent Black Caps games there.

Yeah it was closed yesterday, they had security blocking the entrances. Bit weird!

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Bryan Young is another who changed - from a keeper to an opening bat and quality slip fielder.

 

[jcas0167]

Gavin Larsen and Nathan Astle too.

I think in retrospect Astle was always primarily a batsman (batted 5 for NZ under 20's as it then was) but could only fit into the all-star Canterbury Shell Cup side down the order as an economical medium pace bowler (like Styris at ND). I remember he seemed even economical than Larsen. In the 92/93 final I think he hit a quick fire 20-odd in a low scoring game that was the first inkling I had he could bat. Then was amazed when he started churning out ODI hundreds at a rate never seen before by a Black Caps player.

 

[Bahnz]

I would tend to think the gains would've been very minor in the short term.

Larsen was a middle order bat for Wellington (no 6) in the 80s, while Astle started for Canterbury as an economical ODI bowling allrounder.

Lol, so they basically swapped jobs.