NZ domestic season 2023/24

[NZTailender]

As mentioned previously about Hay, his exit seemed to be based on a clash of personalities with the coach at the time.

I guess if you were still serious you'd move provinces, but I guess that really shook his confidence to the point of giving it up entirely for a bit.

 

[straw man]

He (Small) was really highly rated coming along with Wheeler & Bracewell.

I remember them as the four promising young CD quicks a decade+ ago, the other being Milne. Think Bond went down there to work with them and McClenaghan moved there too after Small was perma-injured.

Shows what an incredibly tough life it is to try make it as a fast bowler. Put other career and life things on hold to slave your guts out training and trying to stay fit, but three of the four have had awful repeated injury problems anyway (the fourth has been ok when away from shards of broken beer bottles and a soggy outfield). Injuries wrecked Small quickly and Wheeler slowly, though nice to see Small back performing at this level now. Credit to Adam Milne to be where he is, how many injuries has he fought back from? Has probably earned the best living of the four through T20 tournaments and occasional NZ matches. Duggeh had his moment for NZ, ultimately was not quite good enough but is a great domestic stalwart.

Overall though, very disappointing that zero from four were able to become regulars in the NZ team, largely due to injury. Something to think about when we write lists of promising 20 yr-old fast bowlers today too...

 

[NZTailender]

Was that before or after the provinces started to roll out actual grass training wickets as the norm in the off-season, replacing the concrete ones?

 

[Immenso]

How many over the last 20-30 years could claim to be unlucky? Not many, either. Hay, definitely, but obviously he left the game at a crucial time. I always thought Josh Brodie was going to be a Test opener but didn't quite score enough runs then got injured and retired early. Can't think of anyone else who couldve/should've made it.

No, not many, if any.

The one I think is unluckiest. E.g. the best I have seen who didn't play blackcaps was James McMillan. Seeing him as a 34 year old bowling 140kph in CLT20, nailing his yorkers. Thinking I've seen a few inferior seamers than him play for NZ.

But his bad luck was injuries, not selection. Like Small.

 

[SteveNZ]

No, not many, if any.

The one I think is unluckiest. E.g. the best I have seen who didn't play blackcaps was James McMillan. Seeing his as a 34 year old bowling 140kph in CLT20. Thinking I've seen a few inferior seamers than him play for NZ.

But his bad luck was injuries, not selection. Like Small.

Oh yeah, you could list some that didn't get opportunities where people with lesser records did. Unlucky, by some definition. As I said, Josh Brodie was highly rated and had a better record than others who opened for NZ. When you think the likes of Brendon Diamanti, Anaru Kitchen, Michael Bates, Ewen Thompson, Bruce Martin, Shanan Stewart etc all played for NZ - good domestic players but were never going to threaten to be international quality - then anyone who could string together a couple of good seasons could say they were 'unlucky' not to play for NZ.

 

[Immenso]

Doull didn't do the bulk of the coaching but yeah it was on the Cricket Show. The majority of it still came under Mark O Donnell at the Aces, and something tells me Andre was involved as well, although he mightve been in Sydney by then

It was a bit gimmicky. But really damn interesting. One of them (Doull) went down the athletics throwing theory - got him a javelin coach. While Richardson was down the theory of the fast gliding runup (like Steyn) and got him a sprinting coach. I'm pretty sure the sprint coach was Chris Donaldson, and he wasn't involved in cricket coaching at all at that time.

It would be hilarious if both a 22 year old club cricketer (Ferguson) became a decade long blackcaps speedster as well as a decade long blackcaps strength and conditioning coach, Chris Donaldson, were both 'discovered' by the same segment of that show.

I recall they did about 4 updates of this segment on The Cricket Show during the season. But every single person on this board missed the final show where they measured his speed gains. No one here ever saw a repeat of the show, and it is said to this day - that nobody on CricketWeb knows how it actually panned out.

 

[The Hutt Rec]

I have zero memory of that, but I do remember when they had the commentary school, they ended up with two winners who got to commentate a few overs of an actual super smash game as a reward. Personally I found them to be better than the actual Sky commentators at the time, and would be streets ahead of the TVNZ ones now.

 

[DougieRydal]

Unless he was an extremely wealthy teenager he didn't choose to shift schools; he persuaded his parent/s to pay for him to go to STAC. It may have been his preference, but probably their choice and finances.

Anyway, good luck to him. Looks a very useful player, especially considering his age.

Scholarship, STAC did the same with Cam Paul now featuring for Canterbury in the Ford Trophy, he was at CBHS but they offered him a gig for Yr 11 onwards...

 

[Prince EWS]

This would make a cool thread - players who successfully reinvented themselves. Mark Richardson the obvious one but guys like Butler, even like a Heath Davis who was a scary quick with a loose radar but finished his career quite nicely as a gentle 120s line and length guy

Styris and Todd Astle quite notable too.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Gavin Larsen and Nathan Astle too.

 

[Immenso]

Styris and Todd Astle quite notable too.

Todd Hitchcock.

 

[_Ed_]

Off to McLean Park for today’s game … haven’t been before and everyone online seems to be saying it’s complete **** recently, but I’m looking forward to it. Even get a bit of play under lights with the women’s game, so it should be good!

Have checked off Pukekura Park and Fitzherbert Park the last few summers, so this is another Super Smash destination unlocked.

What did you think of it?

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Todd Hitchcock.

Paul?

 

[Fuller Pilch]

I thought Greg Todd must've got close to the Black Caps at one stage.

 

[Immenso]

Oh yeah, you could list some that didn't get opportunities where people with lesser records did. Unlucky, by some definition. As I said, Josh Brodie was highly rated and had a better record than others who opened for NZ. When you think the likes of Brendon Diamanti, Anaru Kitchen, Michael Bates, Ewen Thompson, Bruce Martin, Shanan Stewart etc all played for NZ - good domestic players but were never going to threaten to be international quality - then anyone who could string together a couple of good seasons could say they were 'unlucky' not to play for NZ.

I think now, the only positions likely to have unlucky not to be blackcaps is the wicket keeper.

You can be the 3rd or 4th best keeper/bat in the country and be damn good player - but go through career without being a blackcap.

The last one to do this was Derek de Boorder.

Cam Fletcher is currently on target. He's been in some squads recently but not actually played any blackcaps games yet.

 

[SteveNZ]

Styris and Todd Astle quite notable too.

Yup, and Jacob Oram was a no.3 who didn't bowl, but became an international class all-rounder.

BJ Watling, opening bat to legendary wicket keeper batsman. Brendon McCullum, went the other way (although wasnt legendary with the gloves).

Ajaz, bog average club left arm seamer to taking 10-for in India. Vettori was also a seamer at school

Colin Munro debuted for the Aces as a no.11 bowling seam up and will finish his career as one of their most prolific Plunket Shield scorers and a T20 opener who hasn't meaningfully bowled in around a decade

Gavin Larsen and Nathan Astle too.

What were their transformations?

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Larsen was a middle order bat for Wellington (no 6) in the 80s, while Astle started for Canterbury as an economical ODI bowling allrounder.

 

[ataraxia]

I think now, the only positions likely to have unlucky not to be blackcaps is the wicket keeper.

You can be the 3rd or 4th best keeper/bat in the country and be damn good player - but go through career without being a blackcap.

The last one to do this was Derek de Boorder.

Cam Fletcher is currently on target. He's been in some squads recently but not actually played any blackcaps games yet.

Agreed – us, England, and SL have a glut which other countries could sorely use – but tbf the likes of Hopkins and van Wyk flattered to deceive at international level, so maybe much of NZ wicketkeepers' success can be put down to Plunket engine-rooming.

 

[Prince EWS]

Styris and Todd Astle quite notable too.

Yovich was a good one too. Eeked everything he could out of his domestic career by becoming an opening bat when his bowling declined with age. Wasn't even bowling at all for the last couple of seasons.

 

[SteveNZ]

The last one to do this was Derek de Boorder.

Funny you mention him, I thought of him in relation to the mention of Todd Astle. Derek was a hell of a talent as a teenager, scored a premier club hundred on debut, then decided he wanted to be a stodgy opener like Astle. He actually modelled himself on Todd's game. Even Todd decided he didn't want to be that Derek wasted a few years playing that way and squandering talent, was a tourist on a Windies T20I tour but didn't play, then left it too late with a late career realisation he was better wacking it.

The current undergrads of keeping are struggling. Fletcher has fallen off a cliff. Cleaver hasn't been a big performer for years, Chu is ok but not dominant, and Seifert is a hack and a sub par gloveman.